Vitamin D

[Borderscotch]

Seen lots of info on vitamin D but not sure what I should be looking for in a supplement, what amount etc. Can anyone help. I did Google but confused myself

@BahHumbygge please could you tell me where I can find the advice that optimum blood levels are 100 - 150 nmol/l? I'm thinking of supplementing but just want to read a bit more about optimum levels.

Too much Vitamin D is toxic. The recommended dose is 400IU.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

We are taking that dose. My kids are taking Peppa Pig chewable Vitamin D at that dose from Amazon.

@CherryMaple - the dose you are taking is the minimum to meet the threshold to prevent rickets. If you want immune-boosting benefits and a dose which lifts you out of low or deficient state, please read more recent guidance. It's all over the internet and YouTube from doctors.

It is being reported today that Matt Hancock decided to act "fast" and send out boxes of vitamin D to care homes and ECV. Fast. What a joke.
Scotland already started. He needs to revise the paltry NHS recommend dose too.

"To attain a blood level of 25(OH)D above 30 ng/mL requires adults to ingest at least 1500 to 2000 IU of vitamin D per day as recommended by the Endocrine Society’s practice guidelines on vitamin D.13 To achieve the preferred range in which the maximum benefit for reduced all-cause mortality has been observed,2, 7, 11 which is 40 to 60 ng/mL, would require 4000 to 6000 IU of vitamin D per day. For those who are obese, 2 to 3 times more supplementation is needed."

Michael F. Holick, PhD, MD, who is the leading contemporary vitamin D researcher.

www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)30313-6/fulltext

(for clarity, American units of blood levels of vitamin D are in ng/ml. To convert ng/ml to nmol/l used in UK & Europe, multiply by 2.5)

Many more articles collated here:

vitamindwiki.com/Vitamin+D+-+at+least+4%2C000+IU+to+achieve+40-60+ng+and+reduce+risk+of+early+death+%E2%80%93+Holick+June+2018

Under active thyroid, was obese. Went for NHS Bariatric surgery which required a sleep apnoea test and Vitamin D measurement . (because there is an overwhelming link between Vit D deficiency and all kinds of sleep disorders.. and sleep disorders and obesity. ) Sure enough I was hugely deficient.

I am no longer obese but am still prescribed Vit D 3200 iui (fultium D3) throughout the winter months Oct-April and 800 iui during the summer as well as a prescription to bare my skin to the sun regularly throughout the summer months.

My ecv dh is already on D3. Think I will get some for myself.

If only one good thing comes out of this pandemic, it might be that the UK cures its widespread vitamin D deficiency, and as a result, people will avoid other illnesses.

Im morbidly obese so assume I should take more but get confused around the maximum doses.

Im terrified of getting artery problems so assume I should have k2 too. But a bit anxious about playing with things I don't get!

By the way, notice how the change in government policy on vitamin D was released on a Saturday evening. Reported in Sunday news to keep the U-turn under the radar.

Vitamin D: a d-lightful solution for health, Michael F Holick

In this article he recommends a minimum of 2000 units per day (1000 for kids) plus sensible sun exposure as well (not possible in UK winters October to February) and later in the body of article he states that 4000 - 6000 iu is the optimum ideal intake. It's a really startling read just how many bodily processes depend of vitamin D.

Abstract

"Throughout evolution sunlight produced vitamin D in the skin has been critically important for health. Vitamin D, known as the sunshine vitamin, is actually a hormone. Once it is produced in the skin or ingested from the diet it is converted sequentially in the liver and kidneys to its biologically active form 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. This hormone interacts with its receptor in the small intestine to increase the efficiency of intestinal calcium and phosphate absorption for the maintenance of the skeleton throughout life. Vitamin D deficiency during the first few years of life results in a flattened pelvis making it difficult for childbirth. Vitamin D deficiency causes osteopenia and osteoporosis increasing risk of fracture. Essentially every tissue and cell in the body has a vitamin D receptor. Therefore vitamin D deficiency has been linked to increased risk for preeclampsia, requiring a Cesarean section for birthing, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, type I diabetes, type II diabetes, heart disease, dementia, deadly cancers and infectious diseases. Therefore sensible sun exposure along with vitamin D supplementation of at least 2000 IU/d for adults and 1000 IU/d for children is essential to maximize their health."

"[It] is very likely that our hunter gatherer forefathers exposed to sunlight daily were making thousands of IUs of vitamin D a day in their skin and therefore it is not unreasonable to believe that 4000-6000 IU of vitamin D a day is what we all require to satisfy our bodies’ requirement."

Thanks @BahHumbuggye for the detailed info on dosage. It's important for overweight people to know that a higher dose is recommended for them.

Sorry, forgot link

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3738435/

I wish all Vitamin D products showed the dose in the same units of measurement.

I'm looking for some to buy but some have IU, some Ug, some Mg and some just seem to say a number on the bottle without stating any unit of measurement.

Every time I get around to trying to buy some, between navigating the dose information and trying to find a brand that doesn't bind the tablet with an ingredient I'm allergic to I just get overwhelmed and end up not finishing the task.

For the moment I'm sharing DD's d3 olive oil drops which are '400' I assume iu and having 3 drops but we'd get through the bottle too fast if I start having 10 drops of it a day!

Our Vitamin D threads were picked up by the Mail today and they ran a (slightly weird) story about women taking supplements. Some of it was positive though and may encourage some of their readers to invest in supplements over winter.

Obviously GP's are variable, but all the elderly relatives in our family have been prescribed Vit D supplements for years, so I am always quite surprised that it is Seen as something "new".

NewShoes...

Micrograms are abbreviated to both mcg and µg (Greek letter "mu" for micro in maths). To convert micrograms to iu (international units), multiply by 40. So:

5 µg = 200 iu
10 µg = 400 iu
25 µg = 1000 iu
100 µg = 4000 iu
125 µg = 5000 iu etc etc

Lots of brands available on Amazon (nb the maximum you can buy on there is 4000 iu)... check the reviews/ingredients for something suitable.

Pineapple... yes it is a good idea to get a joint D3/K2 supplement. 100 mcg of K2 in with the D3 supplement is a standard amount. You can get dietary sources of K2 if you don't want to take a supplement... lots of traditional type cheeses (gouda is especially rich), organ meats like liver, liver pâté, grass fed butter, grass fed red meat etc. The best source by far is Japanese fermented soya beans, called natto, but the downside is that it's, um, an acquired taste

Here is an interesting interview with a K2 expert

@Baaaahhhhh - my aunt was tested by her GP prior to her receiving out patient treatment for a bowel issue (the hospital asked for this). She was deficient. Instead of prescribing a loading dose, he prescribed a daily dose of 800iu for 6 weeks. That was 6 months ago. Nothing prescribed since and no blood tests. She is elderly, overweight and doesn't get out much. She would happily buy supplements herself, and we would buy them for her, but she won't go against his dosage recommendation or ask for another prescription because he's a doctor and 'must know best'. She takes 400iu because it's on the NHS website along with a multivitamin. It isn't enough for her and won't lift her out of deficiency level.
So my aunt is facing a pandemic while low or deficient in vitamin D again. It makes no sense.

Absolutely nothing about the hugely conflicting advice on vitamin D recommended dosage makes any sense whatsoever. Clearly there is a scientific consensus that vitamin D is very important, but NO consensus on how much the body needs. The UK recommendations have clearly been ludicrously low for donkeys years, and even after they doubled them. However, the higher end recommendations strike me as dangerous if people are self-administering on the back of zero medical advice or blood tests.

I have been taking 1,000iU a day (including in summer) for years now as that is the most I feel 100% safe taking. Since after the first year of starting to do this, I have been considerably less prone to getting colds than I used to be in the past.

@Walkaround - a vitamin D test is around £30.

Not prescribed as such but my orthopaedic surgeon has all his patients on 2,400 IU.

@DianaT1969 - I’ve had a vitamin D test before, and my vitamin D levels (on supplementation) were fine. But then there is also no consensus whatsoever on what counts as an optimum blood level!!!

Every pot I have says each tablet is 25ug, so 1000 iu. Is one tablet enough? On the containers it states not to exceed daily recommended dose of one tablet.

The RDA set for vitamin D is apparently based on a miscalculation. If so, in light of covid in 2020, this is borderline criminally negligent that it isn't being rapidly corrected and communicated effectively to the general public. Not to mention all the other illhealth implications of deficient/insufficient vit D listed in the abstract I pasted in my post above.

"Recommendation for vitamin D intake was miscalculated, is far too low, experts say"

Summary: "Researchers are challenging the intake of vitamin D recommended by the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine saying their Recommended Dietary Allowance for vitamin D underestimates the need by a factor of ten."

"Researchers at UC San Diego and Creighton University have challenged the intake of vitamin D recommended by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) Institute of Medicine (IOM), stating that their Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for vitamin D underestimates the need by a factor of ten.

In a letter published last week in the journal Nutrients the scientists confirmed a calculation error noted by other investigators, by using a data set from a different population. Dr. Cedric F. Garland, Dr.P.H., adjunct professor at UC San Diego's Department of Family Medicine and Public Health said his group was able to confirm findings published by Dr. Paul Veugelers from the University of Alberta School of Public Health that were reported last October in the same journal.

"Both these studies suggest that the IOM underestimated the requirement substantially," said Garland. "The error has broad implications for public health regarding disease prevention and achieving the stated goal of ensuring that the whole population has enough vitamin D to maintain bone health."

The recommended intake of vitamin D specified by the IOM is 600 IU/day through age 70 years, and 800 IU/day for older ages. "Calculations by us and other researchers have shown that these doses are only about one-tenth those needed to cut incidence of diseases related to vitamin D deficiency," Garland explained.

Robert Heaney, M.D., of Creighton University wrote: "We call for the NAS-IOM and all public health authorities concerned with transmitting accurate nutritional information to the public to designate, as the RDA, a value of approximately 7,000 IU/day from all sources."

"This intake is well below the upper level intake specified by IOM as safe for teens and adults, 10,000 IU/day," Garland said. Other authors were C. Baggerly and C. French, of GrassrootsHealth, a voluntary organization in San Diego CA, and E.D. Gorham, Ph.D., of UC San Diego."

NB The upper recommended allowance set by the NHS and other medical associations is 4000 iu, which is a good reasonable level that will ensure optimum blood levels in most of the population. I wouldn't go above that without medical advice and/or getting blood tests via a testing service such as Thriva or NHS Sandwell and ensuring you don't go above 150 nmol/l. 75 - 100 nmol/l is considered reasonably healthy, and 100 - 150 is considered optimum, according to leading researcher Michael Holick.

I take 1000IU/25ug too

Anything from 10ug/400IU to 100ug/4000IU is considered ok. I wouldn't exceed the top dose without medical advice