Informal childcare bubble

[Foxinthechickencoop]

Hello, if I have created an bubble for the purposes of helping each other out with childcare. Are we allowed to mix, as families at the weekend when childcare is not required?
All children at the same school and class ‘bubble’.

@Wherearefoxssocks What law is reciprocal childcare in breach of?

@Wherearefoxssocks agreed! I’m not dropping and running with my two year old.,.. and my parents come into my house and get the kids ready and take the eldest to school. I need childcare from before the time he starts school because I start work before then. My parents need to come into my house, give him breakfast and take him. Their house is too far away to drop them off in the morning for me to start work on time, and their house is not near the school. I don’t have a flying fuck if I got reported. Most of my friends are ‘breaking the rules’ in some way, if they are using two sets of grandparents or having the kids overnight. I’d love to see them all prosecuted 🙄

@tappitytaptap
You carry on breaking the rules and then complain when we have an extended lockdown or another one because the numbers still havent come down because people cant seem to grasp the need to not mix. Its really not that hard. You are not allowed to mix with other people indoors so drop your kids off or get your parents to collect him from your door step earlier, not come into your property.....But you don't give a flying fuck right, so i'm wasting my breath.

@Racoonworld.....exactly. You hand your child over if they cant walk you dont go into their house. FFS, what is wrong with some people!!

Let me explain this slowly for you. I start work at 8. Child cannot go to school until 9. Parents house is miles from school. Parents pick up child from school, they are not going to drive all the way back to theirs in the opposite direction to take child back to then being him back to mine, near the school are they?! Let’s please exercise some common sense here

@WB205020 yep it’s definitely people using their parents for childcare that are driving up infections, not the students next door to me mixing in large groups or the universities or secondary schools 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

@tappitytaptap
Thanks for explaining it slowly......i was being a bit slow in not realising the rules didnt apply to you!

Common sense is following the rules. The rules clearly state adults or those over 13 are not enter other peoples homes other than children under 13 for childcare only.

If you want to justify it then go ahead but just remember if everyone takes the same approach as you then lockdown wont end on 2nd December because the numbers wont have come down as much. If that happens you will blame it solely on schools and Uni students and tell yourself although you broke the rules, its ok, because you used 'common sense'!

No idea what law @wherearefoxssocks thinks you would be breaking if you do childcare. Are you sure you aren‘t mixing informal arrangements between friends with paid childcare? I‘ve never heard of it being against the law to look after a friend‘s kids for a few .

There’s a difference between granny coming into the house to put on the child’s shoes and coat to get them ready for school vs. kids staying overnight purely because parents want a weekend lie in. That said, I’d never report anyone and I can’t get flustered. I would love a lie in though. My parents have some health issues and I’d prefer to minimise their contact with DC, where possible. My choice, of course. People will do what they want anyway so no point in bickering.

What a bloody silly rule 😂 so even if I plonk my 1 year old DD on my mums doorstep, my mum takes her in and vice Versa later.....if one of us has covid then surely we will get it from DD anyway? How is it any different from going into my mums house? My point is if we were going to catch coronavirus then whether I go in or not won’t make a difference because at the end of the day DD has been held by both of us

SarahMused
There was a case about this. If I remember correctly it was two police officers doing a job share and looking after each other's children to help them both go back to work.

Reciprocal childcare did end up counting as needing ofsted registration.

I'll see if I can find it, otherwise I'll be back with a walk of shame for totally misremembering.

This is it:

So could you be breaking the law?
Do you regularly swap childcare with a friend? Ofsted states that most mums in this situation wouldn’t need to register as childminders as there are exemptions to the rules.

These include

If you provide your childcare at the home of the child you are looking after, then Ofsted registration is not required, and there are no restrictions.
If the childcare you’re providing is for less than 2 hours a day or no more than 14 days of childcare per year from a specific address. (This equates to nearly 3 weeks if you are looking at weekday childcare).
If you provide childcare between the hours of 6pm to 2am.
If you only care for a child or children aged under 8 whom you are related to. A relative means a grandparent, aunt, uncle, brother or sister of a child (or half-brother or sister) or someone you are related to through marriage or civil partnership.
If the children concerned are older than 8 years old, then there are no restrictions.

@LolaSmiles thank you. Yes this is what I meant.
Two police officers were found guilty. They weren't paying each other, just taking it in turns to look after children

@Rosadela
Oh I agree......the rules are not great and if anything a little stupid and but unfortunately where do you draw the line.

One person thinks coming in to put coat and shoes on is ok.......another thinks a 10 minute chat in the hall is ok and another then thinks a quick cup of tea is ok as childcare is being provided so that justifies it. I'm speaking hypothetically obviously.

As i say, where do you draw the line. If everyone looks at ways of interpreting or fitting the rules to their lives, rather than just taking them at face value, i really fear this lockdown wont end on 2nd December or worse still we will have another one in January / February! They have already extended Furlough until March, so they are clearly getting prepared for it!

@Rosadela

What a bloody silly rule 😂 so even if I plonk my 1 year old DD on my mums doorstep, my mum takes her in and vice Versa later.....if one of us has covid then surely we will get it from DD anyway? How is it any different from going into my mums house? My point is if we were going to catch coronavirus then whether I go in or not won’t make a difference because at the end of the day DD has been held by both of us

No actually it’s not a definite. There’s been studies to show younger children don’t transmit or catch the virus as easily as older children or adults. So it is quite possible for you or your mum to have it and not pass it in to the other through your child. Whereas if you spend time with your mum yourself it is much more likely. That’s why we have these rules, to minimise our interactions with others as much as possible. It may be necessary for your mum took look after your child so you can work, but it’s not necessary for you to have a cup of tea with your mum in her house. That scenario doubles your mums interactions with people so is not allowed.

Anyone referring to reciprocal childcare - they wouldn't prosecute anyone for this.

@Wherearefoxssocks I think you must be thinking of a very old case which caused an uproar, I'm not aware of any recent prosecution

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1219915/Friends-look-children-fear-prosecution-says-Ed-Balls.html

No OP. You can't meet up with another family for shits and giggles at the weekend.

As it stands, regulation 13 doesn't apply to informal childcare. But regulation 12 (f) suggests that perhaps it was intended to

The drafting of this latest SI is terrible, all sorts of similar problems, no idea if the regular people had all gone on holiday but it's much worse than the previous ones. But you can only go what was written, hence the informal childcare is not included in the requirement that it's for work purposes - which the formal is.

In other words, you can legally supply informal childcare for any reason?

I think if you need childcare for an emergency than obviously it's fine. Childcare to go out for a laugh is taking the piss.

OP is also asking if she can meet up at the weekend with this other family. Assuming there is a mum/dad in both families and at least 1 child per family. I think it's pushing it. And if someone finds out (and they are vindictive) they may report you. Then you would get a fine/feel very stupid.

Childcare to go out for a laugh is taking the piss

No, no, it's not, it's important for everyone to take exercise, take recreation away from their children and, the childcare linked household is there to limit the spread, you don't need to invent more limitations that would achieve nothing more, and can drive riskier behaviour - such as taking your kids with you when you make your essential trips shopping, or when having a laugh with your friend.

@sirfredfredgeorge

Childcare to go out for a laugh is taking the piss

No, no, it's not, it's important for everyone to take exercise, take recreation away from their children and, the childcare linked household is there to limit the spread, you don't need to invent more limitations that would achieve nothing more, and can drive riskier behaviour - such as taking your kids with you when you make your essential trips shopping, or when having a laugh with your friend.

Yes, completely fair enough if you are a single parent. It makes perfect sense. But I think if you have a partner you need to be careful using childcare to do your own thing together. I personally don't think it's right that a couple use childcare to have a day trip out.

Absolutely agree about child free time for a single parent.

I can't start my own thread for some reason. So hope you don't mind me jumping on this one...

Hi all.

My friend helps me out with some childcare.
She tested positive for covid 10 days ago.
We're currently isolating, due out Friday. No symptoms.
My question is, would you look for an alternative to help with childcare?
She'd be due to have my daughter for around 3 hours in a weeks time.
So approx 19 days after she tested positive. Is she likely to still be a risk?
What's your thoughts?