To think those happy about the new lockdown are usually privileged

[NickVanDyke]

Seen many people on Mumsnet and on other social media borderline happy as soon as a second lockdown was leaked.

Am I missing the memo? So many our going to lose their jobs, homes, mental health.

Not to mention the cost of borrowing all this money that our dc and grandkids will have to repay.

I’m just confused how anyone can be happy about this. To me it’s a disaster.

don't get how other countries are getting back to normal while we're still in the shit.

Which European countries -that is to say the countries which can best be compared to the UK - are 'getting back to normal'? Most seem to be reimposing restrictions. I don't see anywhere in Europe 'getting back to normal'.

Nickvandyke I agree with you

5 members of my family have tested positive this week, including myself and my elderly father.
3 different households who have not been in contact with eachother.

It is rife where we are, Tier 3 is not enough.
We need a lockdown now.
Don't give a shit about Christmas. I give a shit about hospitals not being able to cope.

The net effect of overwhelming the NHS would be less bad than of screwing the economy.

@Aloethere

What do you suggest for people who lose their jobs and businesses? What is it you expect them to do? Curl up and rot?

You use the benefits system surely? What happened during the last recession when people lost their jobs? You go on benefits and try and get another job. Losing jobs isn't something new or unique. I'm not saying it isn't awful, the last recession absolutely kicked our arses(we are Ireland and things got real dark for a while) but you suck it and make it through.

Aloe, people who run their own businesses invariably have assets - albeit non-realisable assets. The benefits scheme doesn't distinguish between 'savings' (though why should people who've worked hard and saved now have to live off their savings, for a lockdown that they don't support? What about people whose business is also their pension?) and 'non-realisable' assets.

We are not entitled to any benefits until we have used our savings, our pensions, and sold any property or other assets (and I'd like to see anyone manage to sell a hospitality business at the moment).

If you have spent 20 years building up your own business and have put every last penny and every last bit of energy into it, you don't just "find another job".

We do not qualify for benefits.

Why do people think that "just go on benefits, then" is the answer to all the financial problems created by lockdown?

Weirdly we are from a very middle/ upper class area with my DC attending a middle class school and a lot of private school in a short distance. Lockdowns and restrictions have a low uptake here with very few people being compliant and most of those are very privileged!

Lazy, Phil. You can surely come up with a better argument than someone's username (I also have a gazillion others, after 18 years on MN, and you might agree with some of those).

"If you choose lockdown, you screw the economy and lose lives through suicide, cancer, heart failure and myriad other conditions."

But if you don't choose lockdown and hospitals are full of people with breathing difficulties from covid, and frontline staff are off ill, then people with cancer, heart failure, or even emergency conditions won't have anyone to treat them, might catch it on top, and far more will die. You can't just ignore this virus. It won't go away, it'll just go even more out of control.

I’m in the bracket that OP would consider privileged, we both wfh and our jobs as secure as they can be right now. I really don’t want another lockdown. I’ve felt physically sick all day at the thought of it.

But letting it rip isn’t something I support either. I don’t want to live in a society where we will just let it rip, overwhelm the hospitals and people die. By the way, I’m not saying that I think we should be supporting the economic fall out of lockdown either. I don’t really see a way out of it which doesn’t fuck over a vast proportion of the country. But the little of both approaches doesn’t seem to work either. I also don’t think lockdown is ever going to be effective because we’re not a totalitarian state, which long term I’m also thankful for but does mean it’s all futile.

I accepted that I’m going to lose someone through this and I’m going to count myself extremely lucky to get to the other side if I’ve not lost someone. I don’t know if that will be my grandparents who are both vulnerable and catching it would likely kill them but have also had routine appointments for existing conditions cancelled which could also kill them. I’m not sure if it’s my younger brother who is at university in a tier 3 area and has been self isolating on a seemingly endless loop. I’m not sure if it’s my friend who is trapped with her abusive partner. Or anyone in my circle because their mental health is shot to pieces, they’ve lost jobs, been separated from family.

You use the benefits system surely? What happened during the last recession when people lost their jobs? You go on benefits and try and get another job. Losing jobs isn't something new or unique

The last recession is going to be a socially distanced walk in the park compared to the upcoming economic carnage. Who is going to pay these benefits of which you so casually speak?

100% this. It's sick.

To some extremes, in another way I think it's people petrified of the virus and grateful to have an excuse to not have to be near people. Also some people are getting more money from the covid payment here in Ireland than they were with struggling businesses, so in that case they're not privledged

Also those that keep saying about if we do lockdown more people will die of cancer etc I really done understand this. I have a DC with a life limiting disease ( not cancer but for this sake because it seems to be the only illness mentioned anywhere ) people with these illnesses are most at risk of the NHS becomes overwhelmed.
Sepsis is a huge risk for cancer patients and patients like my daughter. They are more likely to need an icu bed this winter so need a stable nhs for emergency treatment.

Ihatefacemasks Then you use your savings? You don't need benefits if you have savings. Ideal? Of course not but as a person who is self-employed myself I know the risks as I presume you did too?
Again businesses going bust isn't unique to COVID, I know you might think you are special but ultimately you aren't. If your business isn't tenable then find a job.

"Just go on benefits" coming from people who have probably never had to survive on benefits themselves is hilarious.

This government is literally forcing us out of work. Why should we be satisfied with just "going on benefits."

@ihatefacemasks

Have you got the numbers, so that we can do a meaningful comparison?

Does anyone really want a lockdown - not that I've seen. Sensible people see it's the only way to cope with the place we are in now - because people wont comply with anything less and the NHS is collapsing. You probably voted to run down the NHS, now we all pay for that. And if we hadnt had austerity but had looked after our people as they do in Nordic countries maybe we'd be in a better position now. www.france24.com/en/20200903-nordics-welfare-model-limits-corona-economic-damage

Your restaurant could diversify - I've seen others doing takeaway and home delivery, even reselling food to survive. They are not only surviving themselves but keeping their suppliers in business. More difficult in central London but not impossible. Some people have even started businesses in lockdown that are thriving. You can start again if your business goes bust, there will still be people looking to invest.

The message from every country is that if you dont control the virus your economy tanks. It's not health or economy, you wont have a thriving economy unless people spend and fewer people go out and spend when they think it's unsafe.

We should have had faster action, it would have done less economic damage but Boris dithered in spring and he's dithering again now.

The media has manipulated many people into believing that they will end up in ICU if they so much as leave the house, and that this is on par with Ebola or similar.
The majority of even 85+ and vulnerable people survive.

The last recession is going to be a socially distanced walk in the park compared to the upcoming economic carnage. Who is going to pay these benefits of which you so casually speak?

Well let's get real here, you were always going to be in the shit when you walked into brexit. You will get through it though, you grit your teeth and you do it. There will be benefits, perhaps reduced but they will be there. I understand that the UK will have somewhat of a double whammy and your choices over there will affect us too over here in Ireland but you can't blame all of what you are walking into on COVID and lockdowns.

And I don't buy all this "if deaths get too high people will be too scared to go out and spend" because the majority of people are happy to take that risk if local city centres were anything to go by. The people who are too scared to go out probably won't be right now anyway.

Couldn't agree more. And bear in mind that the decisions are being made by those in the public sector whose income and security will be affected not one jot.

The impact on "the economy" is not some vague thing that doesn't affect us - it's actually the impact it has on people's wealth, health and wellbeing.

Lockdowns lead to poverty, social isolation, poorer health, poorer mental health, more alcoholism, more suicides, more domestic violence.

If you're wealthy or in a secure job (public sector I'm looking at you) then it's much easier to bear.

If you're self employed, on a low wage, or in a vulnerable business it is very much harder indeed.

We are privileged. We do not believe in lockdown.

Social distancing yes
Masks yes
Cinemas, theatres closed yes
Households not mingling yes
No parties/gatherings yes
Flexible working to reduce transport contacts yes

The economy matters and more deaths will arise if we lock down again from cancer, heart disease, etc. I have heard that the rate of still births has more than tripled due to lack of engagement with ante natal care already.

We locked down last time for the NHS. Regrettably the NHS did not lock out as pressures reduced. My DD's Neuro Developmental Disability clinic remains totally shut. Phone calls only - not even video calls in a time frame - because all the admins are wfh and they won't divert the phones. My step father's cataract op was cancelled because the severity bar has risen due to Covid. His consultant offered him a private procedure within a week for 5K.

The NHS has not covered itself in glory by a far stretch (no disrespect to front-line workers who have gone above and beyond) for the rest of it they have said it themselves: tick, tock, tick, tock - said the reinvention clock!

500,000 cases - 274 deaths. The propaganda and attrition of human rights have been truly mind blowing and are wholly disproportionate to the risks. We have to learn to live with it, shield our vulnerable and carry on as my grandparents had to live with TB, Polio and Diptheria.

We need to listen to scientists who speak statistical common sense like Tim Spektor and those behind the Barrington debate.

I have stuck to the rules so far and agreed with the first lockdown. I found out last week that where I work are in financial shit and they will be making redundancies and I am now shitting myself as we are just buying a new property.

My mental health also suffered during the 1st lockdown due to neighbours from hell and also not having any outside space with a toddler.

I do not agree with this lockdown. They cannot keep doing this to businesses. They have spent thousands of pounds making them covid secure to then be forced to close them again. I am also struggling to comprehend another lockdown where we currently live.

YANBU

I lost my job in September, lucky enough to be hired by another company who just bounced back after the lockdown.

As much as we love wfh and able to save money when nothing is open. We still need the economy to provide us jobs to pay the bills, my children to be educated since we can't afford to save any inheritance for our children it is important they get good education to survive. It's not only us who suffer, our children will too.

The rich will not have the same issue as us.

I don't want lockdown, I can see what it is doing to vulnerable people and those starting out in life. I don't know how anyone can feel anything other than worried for the future of everybody-especially our children. I feel utterly miserable about it. Nothing good is coming out of lockdown.