Schools MUST stay open.

[motherrunner]

I hear this a lot on MN.

Schools maybe ‘open’ but they’re not really depending on where you live.

I’m in Tier 2, due to go into Tier 3 next week prior to the lockdown rules.

Since Sept Yr 10 have isolated twice (4 weeks out of a 8 week half term), Yr 12 and 13 three times (6 weeks of a 8 week half term). My own DS is isolating due to being in contact with a positive until next week and I am isolating until next week as one of my pupils tested positive (and before anyone asks why I wasn’t 2m away well let’s just say, that’s school life).

Before lockdown in March my school had to close just to the numbers of staff off, at one point admin staff were supervising classes.

This morning I read a comment from a poster on the ‘lockdown my thread that teachers just have to ‘hope’ they get a mild viral load. Have we become so disillusioned with this virus that because “schools must stay open” then we minimise they health of school staff?

I am happy to be back teaching my pupils, I’m not happy that I feel unsafe. I am not happy that other workplaces have ‘Covid secure’ measures but I have sanitiser and a ‘hope for the best’ attitude.

So, if you really want schools to stay open then please email your MP and voice concerns about safety and hopefully we can stay open in a meaningful way because there’s a difference between ‘schools open’ with us delivering a quality education and ‘schools open’ with a body providing childcare.

then where would that leave us - unable to pay our mortgage and unable to feed ourselves

Exactly. Would anyone be offering to pick up that tab for you? Of course not.

They dare say it because that's his they see it.

There is a vast amount of (very selfish) 'othering' in just about every aspect of talking about covid, and people usually don't like it much when they realise there are sectors of society who are perfectly happy to inflict quite difficult to downright shitty circumstances on them just so there's more freedom elsewhere

@TheKeatingFive

In return, would it be possible for you to campaign vociferously for my health and safety rights, even if that is only because I cannot provide continuity of childcare for you if I am ill?

Are you doing that for food production staff? The police? Those working in social care? All of whom will continue to work regardless of lockdown.

I’ll support measures that teachers want to implement, but it is fundamentally the job of the unions to ‘campaign vociferously’.

My understanding is that all of the above groups are allowed - nay mandated - to wear PPE, and where possible to have covid-safe workplaces. I know food production facilities with outbreaks have had massive testing facilities moved in etc. I entirely agree that it is extremely hard for the police and social care staff to maintain SD at all times, but equally they are not required by contract to spend all day, every day, in close contact in closed rooms with 30-40 people, all with no PPE.

Teachers in school? No. We are told we do not need any PPE, we are not allowed to create covid-safe environments that allow SD, and it is almost impossible to get tested.

@cateSY

How dare some posters say that parents are selfish for wanting schools/nurseries to stay open? Either me or my DH wouldn't be able to work if our DD couldn't go to nursery and then where would that leave us - unable to pay our mortgage and unable to feed ourselves

Parents are not selfish for wanting schools and nurseries to stay open SAFELY (after all, teachers who are parents need this as much as anyone).

It is somewhat selfish to require teachers and nursery staff to work in non-Covid-secure workplaces, though, especially if your workplace IS Covid-secure.

What we ALL want is good childcare and education that is as safe as possible for everyone - for children, for adults, for the parents and grandparents who live with school and nursery-attending children.

Either me or my DH wouldn't be able to work if our DD couldn't go to nursery and then where would that leave us - unable to pay our mortgage and unable to feed ourselves

Exactly. As a country we couldn't afford helping out all those who's lose their jobs.

Our national debt is already larger than GDP this year!

So yes, let's make schools as safe as possible but we cannot afford to close them imo.

Someone on the news had a good analogy of it. It is like locking the door when you leave the house to prevent burglars entering, but leaving the windows open for fresh air ...

My understanding is that all of the above groups are allowed - nay mandated - to wear PPE, and where possible to have covid-safe workplaces.

Hasn’t worked out too well for food production staff, who have had some of the worst work based outbreaks.

Personally I am fully supportive of PPE for teachers and don’t really understand why the unions have not focused totally on this point.

So yes, let's make schools as safe as possible

Absolutely. That requires political will, money and absolute adherence to out-0of-school rules by parents, too.

@cateSY

How dare some posters say that parents are selfish for wanting schools/nurseries to stay open? Either me or my DH wouldn't be able to work if our DD couldn't go to nursery and then where would that leave us - unable to pay our mortgage and unable to feed ourselves

Your mortgage and child are your responsibilities though, not the responsibility of childcare/school staff.

Someone on the news had a good analogy of it. It is like locking the door when you leave the house to prevent burglars entering, but leaving the windows open for fresh air ...

The analogy is wrong, as we're not trying to prevent a burglar (the virus) from entering the house (the school).

We're simply trying to SLOW the spread of the virus so that hospitals and schools CAN stay open.

Your mortgage and child are your responsibilities though, not the responsibility of childcare/school staff.

Yes, but if people lose their jobs and start relying on the State for help, it becomes the Government's responsibility to help them financially. And that could become very expensive.

Well, 80% of Covid cases atm are a mutated strain from a farm in Spain. How many parents were bleating on MN on how they needed to go abroad for a holiday to make their children happy after lockdown?

Short term thinking outweighed by longer term costs!

@cateSY

How dare some posters say that parents are selfish for wanting schools/nurseries to stay open? Either me or my DH wouldn't be able to work if our DD couldn't go to nursery and then where would that leave us - unable to pay our mortgage and unable to feed ourselves

As IceCream says, ultimately you are asking that school and nursery staff take health risks in order that you can continue to earn.

I completely agree that the Government should consider how to balance the health risks to me with the financial risks to you when coming up with a safe plan for schools and nurseries. However I do not agree that you should be allowed to demand that I and my colleagues take risks without mitigation simply to protect your financial position.

Well, 80% of Covid cases atm are a mutated strain from a farm in Spain

And what evidence do you have that it was families with children that brought back?

Perhaps it was groups of young men? Or teachers, farmers, anyone really..?

In fact I don't see the relevance of u you our point to the discussion?

@Lavenderseas

Your mortgage and child are your responsibilities though, not the responsibility of childcare/school staff.

Yes, but if people lose their jobs and start relying on the State for help, it becomes the Government's responsibility to help them financially. And that could become very expensive.

Yes. But what the poster is demanding is not financial support. they are demanding that school staff should put up with their health being put at risk. The two are slightly different....

Too many people have been adapting the rules to suit their own needs. We haven’t all been in it together. Have all of us on Mumsnet stuck to the rules? No we haven’t and that is why we are in the state we are in now! No point bleating if you haven’t followed the rules !

I can understand someone saying 'If schools close, I will need financial support, as I will not be able to work'.

However, instead of that they say 'Schools must stay open, regardless of the health risks to staff, so I can continue to earn'.

What is needed is a well-funded plan for the safety of schools AND the financial support of parents such that schools can stay open as safely as possible, without the false dichotomy between the welfare of staff and the financial needs of parents.

Have just seen on twitter that the NEU are calling for schools and colleges to be closed over lockdown.

@Qasd

As we discovered in June socially distanced school is only possible if we decided that we “pick are favourites” and those are the kids who get an education. So no I will no email my mp and ask for this because it’s not really acceptable.

Having said that I fully intended to argue for key worker status this time since it seems the Categories are broad enough to cover me in reality. This does seem unfair that we deny education to those who really cannot do this but I can only argue for others so much...and if as a country we are happy to restrict education long term based on parental employment status then expect the few of us out there who think “education” not childcare actual education is important to go down this route. The large numbers on here who think it isn’t can get there kids to do the two twinkle worksheets a day and hope that actually what children learned in the other 4 and half hours of a school day didn’t really matter - maybe they are even right but I am not totally convinced myself!

Other countries have shut school? Umm Europe is keeping schools open and no they cannot fully social distanced there either the us does fully online education on the whole. I know for people in four different states and they are all doing live online lessons not silly worksheets so it’s not exactly the same as offer of remote education in offer from the British state education sector.

This.

Schools were open to key workers and that doesn’t just mean nurses working on Covid wards. That also includes highly paid professionals like consultants. Is it really fair that children of key workers are entitled to an education and those whose parents work is say, hospitality get no education for months on end like last time?

As a teacher, I am exasperated by the unions. I don't want lockdown in schools. Online teaching young children is incredibly hard then only 30% of the class join in, even if pre -recorded. If the unions insisted on masks / visors indoors for all I would be up for it. It is so simple I can't believe it isn't being put forward.

KW children did not get an education. They were babysat. It would have been massively unfair to have given them live teaching whilst other children were at home doing remote learning.

From NEU

31st October 2020

NEU CALLS FOR SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES TO BE CLOSED DURING 4 WEEK NATIONAL LOCKDOWN

Amid the speculation around a 4 week lockdown to be announced by the Prime Minister, the National Education Union is calling for schools and colleges to be included in any such lockdown - and for rotas to be introduced at the end of the lockdown period. The Union says that schools should remain open to the children of key workers and vulnerable children during such a general closure period.

Pointing to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics,Kevin Courtney, Joint General Secretary of the National Education Unionsaid:

“It is clear from ONS data that schools are an engine for virus transmission. It would be self-defeating for the Government to impose a national lockdown, whilst ignoring the role of schools as a major contributor to the spread of the virus.

Such a lockdown would impose pain on the whole community - but not be as effective as it could be if schools were included. Ignoring the role of schools and colleges in the spread of the virus is likely to lead to the need for even longer lockdowns in future.

The latest figures from the ONS estimate that 1% of primary pupils and 2% of secondary pupils have the virus and that these levels have increased dramatically since wider opening in September. NEU analysis of ONS figures shows that virus levels are now 9 times higher amongst primary pupils and an astonishing 50 times higher amongst secondary pupils.

The National Education Union called for a two week circuit break over half term to include schools, which the Wales Government and the Northern Ireland assembly have done - but the Government in Westminster has ignored this call. More severe measures are now called for as a result, the Government should not make this mistake again.

The Government should include all schools in proposals for an immediate national lockdown and as a minimum be preparing for school rotas at the end of that period, including by actually meeting its promise to deliver broadband and equipment to those children who do not have them.

It is also vital that the Government ensure proper financial support for all those affected by lockdown including crucial supply teachers and other staff.”

Sams - the school will have to act tough. Follow the social distancing at drop off and collection or your child won’t be able to attend school. Why should a small number ruin it for everyone else!

The thing is though, that it doesn't seem to be a small number. I am very much in the minority in social distancing myself and my children after school. I don't think the school are allowed to refuse attendance, but the threat would be useful!

@Danglingmod

KW children did not get an education. They were babysat. It would have been massively unfair to have given them live teaching whilst other children were at home doing remote learning.

KW children were taught the remote work set from June at my Ds’s school.

Sams - at the school I’ve a governor at the headteacher stands outside with a loud speaker telling parents to drop off and go - it’s a sight to be seen and appears to be working.