Schools MUST stay open.

[motherrunner]

I hear this a lot on MN.

Schools maybe ‘open’ but they’re not really depending on where you live.

I’m in Tier 2, due to go into Tier 3 next week prior to the lockdown rules.

Since Sept Yr 10 have isolated twice (4 weeks out of a 8 week half term), Yr 12 and 13 three times (6 weeks of a 8 week half term). My own DS is isolating due to being in contact with a positive until next week and I am isolating until next week as one of my pupils tested positive (and before anyone asks why I wasn’t 2m away well let’s just say, that’s school life).

Before lockdown in March my school had to close just to the numbers of staff off, at one point admin staff were supervising classes.

This morning I read a comment from a poster on the ‘lockdown my thread that teachers just have to ‘hope’ they get a mild viral load. Have we become so disillusioned with this virus that because “schools must stay open” then we minimise they health of school staff?

I am happy to be back teaching my pupils, I’m not happy that I feel unsafe. I am not happy that other workplaces have ‘Covid secure’ measures but I have sanitiser and a ‘hope for the best’ attitude.

So, if you really want schools to stay open then please email your MP and voice concerns about safety and hopefully we can stay open in a meaningful way because there’s a difference between ‘schools open’ with us delivering a quality education and ‘schools open’ with a body providing childcare.

@GoldenOmber

Government prioritising education over other things isn’t about children mattering more than adults, it’s about what tools the government has at its disposal to make up for the damage. There are levers the government can pull to make up for purely financial damage - they can borrow, they can put schemes like furlough in place, they can slash business rates. They don’t have those levers for education. There is no way to furlough educational progress.

You’re free to think the current Tory government is just being impractically sentimental about the needs of children if you want, but I think Marcus Rashford might want a word!

Of course they could have invested to make it safer with more money for supply teachers to cut class sizes down, created Nightingale Schools as well, repurposing other public spaces that are currently empty. They did NOTHING. Oh there was plenty they could do for education.

Of course they could have invested to make it safer with more money for supply teachers to cut class sizes down, created Nightingale Schools as well, repurposing other public spaces that are currently empty. They did NOTHING. Oh there was plenty they could do for education

Yes of course they could and should have done this. I’m saying that if they close schools, they can’t make up for the lost learning by just pouring money into it.

To be honest, I'm thinking of calling Marcus up. Perhaps he can get the government to see sense on schools safety. It seems headteachers and unions can't .

Excellent idea @Piggywaspushed. My Tory MP seems to ignore my emails.

I also have an ASD child who suffered massively during lockdown. He went from being quite a cheerful lad to being constantly crying, anxious, grumpy, unreasonable etc. He needs school, not as childcare, but for socialisation. School is the equivalent of work for kids - we all know the negative impact on mental health for adults out of work and it’s the same - or worse - for kids

In Scotland s4-s6 kids in tier 3 or 4 will now be wearing masks all day in school. Many secondary schools are applying this to the whole school. If that’s what it takes to keep schools open then so be it. It’s better than seeing my ds a shadow of his normal happy self again

@Danglingmod

And every time you read "schools need to stay open for year 11 and 13; their exams are too important" needs "and screw the kids who have barely been in school this term; all the more 9s/A stars for my kid" adding on the end.

The issue is not that simple. My own year 11 has missed schooling this term ( tier 3 area) . He has got on with work set by the school and used study guides ( sold cheaply by the school). He has kept independently to school hours and by their age, that is something that should be expected. He wants to take his exams. Statistically predictions fail black students who outperform predicted grades at a significantly higher percentage than other groups.Nothing about this situation is fair or can be made fair but to argue that predicted grades are fairer than other options is problematic. Having said this there absolutely has to be more protection for teaching staff. It is shocking that vulnerable groups have been forced into a return to work, students are not required to wear masks and that staff have no ppe. Temperature checks are another option that have been adopted elsewhere. The issue has become so polarised. The options aren’t all schools open or all schools shut. I do think exam years need to be priority ( and I say that as the parent of a younger child as well). The other part of this equation is that book scrutinies, learning walks etc. need to be suspended. It is hard enough at the best of times to ensure quality in books ( moving around the classroom to catch potential issues) and to personally support children who need intervention. How is this possible with social distancing? Education can’t be at previous standards for a while and parents and school management need to understand that. To keep schools open, even partially, there needs to be compromise.

I am a teacher, and CV (as well as being older).

I want schools to stay open SAFELY.

As the government did not take decisive action over the summer (in terms of policy, funding, building or requisitioning, or providing technology), the options available for this are very limited.

At the very least:

• Everyone in schools should wear masks. Masks with clear sections should be funded and provided for all teachers.
• Any ECV teachers should work from home, providing online learning for isolating children. The Government should fund replacement supply teachers.
• Very clear instructions should be provided to all schools, removing, as far as possible, all ambiguity. For example, there should be no assemblies, no staff meetings or training or parents' evenings face to face, use of any any rooms without ventilation should be prohibited. Where things such as marking are considered low risk, they should be allowed everywhere.
• Any activities in which children from different schools mix inside should be closed.
• Any activities that mix children from different bubbles within schools e.g. after school care should only stay open with strict distancing between bubbles.
• Communication with parents must be absolutely clear and unambiguous, that in order to be able to take the huge risk of mixing children in school for the purposes of their education, it is absolutely critical that there should be no mixing inside outside the school building.
• This prohibition on mixing should be supported by fines.
• Testing must be available within 24 hours for any child or teacher. It must be illegal for any parent to return a child without a negative test, and any child who is off for any illness-related reason - even if no specific Covid symptoms - must be tested (to avoid the current situation where children are off for 4-5 days with 'a cold' or 'a bit of a tunny bug' to avoid testing and isolation)
• Any employees of any company who are isolating due to a child or family member testing positive must be paid as normal.

Oh, God, yes, re the learning walks! We are still having them, and full mocks , too. And meetings, and training days, and endless visitors.

One primary school had to close because it had had Ofsted in and an inspector tested positive so the whole of SLT at the school had to SI!! I heard that one member of the SLT did go on to test positive.
That is plainly beyond bonkers.

One bonus of me SI is that I miss ‘leaning walk week’ next week! Although I’m sure it’ll be scheduled in for me at some other point!

I have a feeling this lockdown will go on for a month and then they'll close schools etc beginning of December for a longer Christmas break with other sectors being able to open again.

never said teachers shouldn’t have PPE. I have no idea where you got that from.
You literally said it here: Teachers don’t need more than masks (and again in your next sentence below)

But I don’t see a real reason for them needing more than masks and access to soap and water unless they happen to be cleaning up vomit or other bodily fluids.
Again, showing that you are making incorrect assumptions too. Teachers don’t have regular access to soap and water; some don’t even see the inside of a toilet all day or have one close by where they teach. And you keep saying ‘more than masks’. Why are you so against teachers having more protection, such as the gloves, aprons, screens etc. that you state you have access to, as do supermarket workers.

And how is saying teachers have a choice about wearing a mask (at my kids schools) the same as saying they don’t have masks ?? This confused me. I never wrote this or said that you did. Is this to another poster?

And I really don’t get why teachers are apparently always touching kids yet my daughter was left to cry for half an hour without even a hug...doesn’t make sense.
Again, I’ll repeat: kids touch the teachers. Very hard to stop them all the time.

It also shows how difficult it is for teachers to know what to do with the very poor guidance. They are vilified for not sticking to rules and making contact with pupils and also vilified for sticking to rules and not making contact. Even by the same poster! Do you not think if that teacher had a mask, gloves, apron and/or visor, they would have been more likely to hug your child? There was a very long thread a few days ago where the parent was very angry the teacher patted their child on the shoulder to comfort them and wanted to report them. I’ll try and find it for you.

Clearly if you are in close contact eg kid has been sick or having to help them after an accident then PPE is sensible, but surely this would be happening anyway.
It isn’t happening anyway, as many have tried to repeatedly say on this thread and many others. Sadly.

I know at our local special needs school where many kids are in nappies the staff have aprons and gloves etc

So again, why are you arguing against all staff having this kind of protection too? Things like nose bleeds and scraped knees are all very common in all schools.

"teachers have masks"

Umm... No! I work withprimary school age and our guildlines are no masks. We have a little pack in each classroom with mask and gloves to be used while we sit with a child with symptoms that is waiting to be collected. I work in a pupil referral unit so not possible to socially distance. I have children I definitely don't want schools closed. I want better safety precautions.

That is a very sensible list can’tkeepawayforever!
Shocking that no one in the government has come close. Instead we are living in the land of The Emporer’s New Clothes. Everyone can see it but nothing is done.

I'm a secondary school teacher. I live in a tier 3 area but my school is currently in tier 1. Out catchment covers tiers 1-3.
We have spent thousands on outdoor sinks, sanitiser, a fogging machine and buying laptops for kids who didn't have access. We got some from the government 2 weeks before we closed in July. Last Friday, we learned that the number of laptops we'd been allocated this term had been slashed, so some students we'd earmarked them for won't now be getting them.
We offered decent provision in March to July for the students at home, and our provision for self isolating students this term is even better.
But our classrooms are packed. Some don't have windows. We have a one way system but the corridors are rammed at movement time. Many of our students travel by public transport. We can't police them outside school so all the bubbles in the world in school are of very little use.
We got to a week before half term before y11 had to self isolate. Year 9 will now be off next week.
We've been lucky. But with all the will in the world, this will happen again and again.
Schools SHOULD stay open, but I'm afraid there's no MUST about it. If we'd been afforded the protections we asked for, and the funding to do it, we'd be in a much better position.

It is just heartbreaking that all the measures we were asking for in the Summer were dismissed as unnecessary, over the top, scary for the children, hysterical. It's the same all over again in England anyway that we have to get to crisis point before any steps are taken The damage is already being done.

Yes, I agree about everything that you have said Blackberry.

I also think that parents would be horrified if they realised that outsiders do come into classrooms (after visiting all of the others) to observe lessons, breaking bubbles. Obviously slt (senior leadership team) and pastoral staff do this all of the time too, though this is frequently unavoidable.

There are many things that happen in school that unsuspecting parents would be shocked st, but masks would help.

Ironically, the other day I had a full day of teaching with a full class. A few parents tried to approach me after school even though they are supposed to follow other communication routes. In the evening I entered a chemist where everyone was masked including me. Only 3 people were allowed in at a time. The chemist was double my class size. I had not noticed the 3rd customer and accidentally entered. I was told to come in in a bit when they had left. When I went in the chemist apologised (for the assistants sharp tone I think lol) and said it was to protect me. I was very tempted to say it was too late, I had been in a class of 30 plus all day with several interlopers all unmasked including myself. Obviously I kept quiet and smiled!

It's all a bit pointless if schools don't close. Cases only started to rise in September when they went back. Everything was fine in June, July, August.

I’m a teacher and I’m currently on day four of being COVID positive. Any measures put in place are pointless if schools are open.

Just 800 kids in yr6 got covid in the week ending 25 October?
Out of 700,000 kids the same age.
That's 0.011%, right?
Is Adult prevalence also 0.011%? I suspect it's higher...

My household doesn't need childcare. I can still see it's a social disaster if kids and young people just stop being educated or strategy is to try to rely on remote learning. Remote learning is very inadequate substitute for in person learning.

@SpookyNoise How are you feeling? Hope you’re as well as you can be.

As far as I can see, most people are saying schools should stay open, but with better protection for adults and children.
This protection would also mean that whole classes and year groups would be less likely to suddenly close.

@DBML more people care than you realise. MN just tends to be an echo chamber on this topic and, dare I say it, often attracts the us4them types. to all teachers.

@Whiskas1Kittens Absolutely. Definitely what all school staff want!

@Whiskas1Kittens

As far as I can see, most people are saying schools should stay open, but with better protection for adults and children. This protection would also mean that whole classes and year groups would be less likely to suddenly close.

Well, yes.

The real - unspoken - issue is that schools are so overcrowded that better protection is almost impossible.

That is why we end up with any really effective proposals requiring part-time learning in schools, simply because there is absolutely no other way of reducing numbers enough to allow social distancing of any kind.

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE WE WANT PART TIME LEARNING. It is because there is no other way of allowing social distancing of more than a few cm. I am less than a metre from the closest pupil if i stand as far away as I possibly can from the class by flattening myself against the front wall of the classroom. Every child touches another child, and the furthest distance between any pairs of children at adjacent desks is 80 cm.

@SecretSpAD Thank you 😊