If we'd do online education, we wouldn't need another lockdown

[CoffeeAndWhisky]

Just that, really. Same as with SARS, as soon as schools closed, the infection rate dropped dramatically. I work in education and yes, some things need to take place on campus but for schools and most uni/college courses, remote teaching is perfectly feasible.

I have seen two people die of the mental health consequences of lockdown, with three more at risk currently and services underfunded, now only remote, and generally not sufficient. Am I the only one who things that as long as schools and most further and higher education isn't shut, there is no point in sticking to rules of another lockdown?

Schools should stay open even if everything else closes. Children need it, and the effects of closing them beyond the children are huge. Parents who work in childcare might be off to stay home with their children, who looks after the children of essential workers under 5? Speaking of which, doctors, nurses, midwives, retail staff will have a % affected, and lead to burnout for the rest where they are covering additional work. School isn't childcare as it's primary function, but as a fall out it is.

Teachers arguing that long term online education would be completely viable does have a 'turkeys voting for Christmas' vibe

1. Viable means it's do-able, not ideal

1. Turkeys voting for Christmas? You're dreamin'. If Covid has taught us one thing, it' s that education - live teaching is vital. No less importantly, children need each other.

This does not mean that schools should stay open for all in the lockdown.

A large number of pupils with Sen cannot do online learning.

Some are vulnerable and I agree there needs to be something for them at home. But, speaking as a middle aged asthmatic teacher, Sen schools need to stay open definitely.

Some of ours haven't even recovered and got back into a routine of learning at school after the lockdown and summer yet. And I can't see it happening till Xmas.

But I'm talking specifically Sen there.

Unfortunately many are closing due to how quickly infection spreads so I don't know how viable full time is longer term.

I agree that schools should close. May not be a popular opinion on here, but irl I know plenty of parents who feel the same.

YABU

HTH

There is next to no evidence that says schools have spread the virus. In my area, going into tier 3 on Monday, it’s the mixing of households that’s the problem. The children need a good education otherwise how are we going to keep the country running in the future.

Teachers arguing that long term online education would be completely viable does have a 'turkeys voting for Christmas' vibe.

Both myself and dh are experienced teachers (dh primary deputy head, I’m a secondary head of department) and we are DEFINITELY NOT arguing for this. We both know our classroom lessons are far superior to our online lessons. We are trying our best with online lessons (dh even did them when he had Covid) and they’re ok in the very short term in extreme circumstances when there’s no alternative (like when dh had Covid), but they’re not the solution. Education will undoubtedly suffer if children cannot go to school. Children need to be in school. And yes, of course school is a form of childcare. That’s how our society is set up - children go to school and parents go to work. We have children, they go to school and we go to work. It’s quite simple, if children can’t go to school then parents won’t be able to work properly.

@Mumtumwobble

Teachers arguing that long term online education would be completely viable does have a 'turkeys voting for Christmas' vibe.

Both myself and dh are experienced teachers (dh primary deputy head, I’m a secondary head of department) and we are DEFINITELY NOT arguing for this. We both know our classroom lessons are far superior to our online lessons. We are trying our best with online lessons (dh even did them when he had Covid) and they’re ok in the very short term in extreme circumstances when there’s no alternative (like when dh had Covid), but they’re not the solution. Education will undoubtedly suffer if children cannot go to school. Children need to be in school. And yes, of course school is a form of childcare. That’s how our society is set up - children go to school and parents go to work. We have children, they go to school and we go to work. It’s quite simple, if children can’t go to school then parents won’t be able to work properly.

Nail. On. Head.

I am not in the uk. We are working from home where possible. (DH is, as a teacher, I go to work). Schools are open. Afterschool activities with in the school are still run but swimming club, for example, has stopped lessons. Shops are open, with limits. Bars are closed. Restaurants are open, but with heavy restrictions.
We are told not to mingle or gather unless absolutely necessary.

So we can still function as a society but remain cautious.

You clearly have no idea what it’s like to chain a 7yr old to a laptop while both parents are on important video calls on their own laptops. Education it is not. My child utterly fell out with learning entirely and if it had gone on much longer may not have found it again.

Sympathy . If schools close, it would be better imo for schools not to set any work whatever for children under the age of 10 (or make it entirely voluntary for those kids with a SAHP who can supervise). Let's not pretend these children are going to be getting an education. I can just about manage to do some work (not 8 hours but something) by sticking my young child in front of the TV all day. It would be impossible if I was expected to educate them/supervise online lessons as well.

Hate the term turkeys voting for Christmas, FFS. But teachers aren't saying long term that online learning is fine, but that in a really shit situation, they are prepared to work hard to try and deliver online to a group of 30+ remotely, all with different access to WiFi or tech, at different levels, mindful of their welfare, and whilst juggling everything else going on as we all are. That's a stark difference between saying online learning is better than learning in person, and it's at zero detriment. I feel so bloody sad for them, if the government had been realistic and offered support for schools to begin a move towards this, how to make provisions for children who need support etc, and for parents to have some foresight to be able to try and make homeschooling arrangements; but no, they didn't bother. Many have been working on this alongside their usual jobs, and no doubt the government will u turn and expect all to pick up the pieces and put something together in a few days.

I don't think schools should close, but the savagery towards teachers on here is at times brutal.

Children need school but their parents don’t need their jobs if it’s in retail, hospitality or leisure.

I absolutely despair at the logic of this argument.

@Kingsley08 it's not that parents don't need jobs is just that they could be compensated in other ways. The benefit system should be operating as a safety net.

You can't replace education for children. Those years are formative. As is the necessity of playing, and everything that teaches children about making sense of the world and coping strategies. The sad reality is that schools also offer an escape and safety net for many many children. It may be the only place that gives them a nutritious meal.

If schools were to close, then the needs of children has to be factored in in a way that just wasn't last time.

I put my HE programme entirely on line and the students prefer it. We have two hours of face to face zoom a day and the rest of the time they work through activities.

However husband an SEN teacher in a PRU. Some kids won't even turn their laptop on if they haven't already tried to sell it!

Online only works successfully for motivated kids and parents unfortunately

I'd much rather have an extra hr to lie in my warm bed in the mornings, then stroll to get a coffee, shower at leisure then teach at my PC.

That said, I teach in a city school with high SEN, and high child deprivation. Many of our pupils can't access the internet and don't have any devices to work on. We worry a great deal about pupils not being fed. We stress about pupil who don't have the basics at home like bedding and lightbulbs (I can list these kids for you - this isn't imaginary).

We could of course deliver work to them but in the first 2 weeks of term where learning was staggered, we spent £12k on paper. That's out of our already dwindled school budget - that's someone's job....gone.

We simply cannot afford to close schools for so many reasons.but the biggest reason for me are the pupils. It's too much of a concern.

...and I'm overweight, badly asthmatic with lung damage. I'm very, very apprehensive about the whole situation. I don't say 'keep us open' blithely.

What about screen-time limits for young children?

Having been given the message that screen-time for children is best limited as much as possible, are parents now meant to stick their primary-age children in front of a laptop for 6 hours a day (followed by TV and more TV as the parents try to catch up on work).

Far better to accept that online education should only be for secondary school pupils and, if schools need to shut shut, children with SEN and primary school children will not be receiving an education.

Like in California, right? They have overwhelmingly online education at all ages. Deaths are nicely down there... aren't they? #sarcasm

How many threads now?