If you were the Government, what would you do .....

[MagicSummer]

To bring the virus under control and ultimately give us back our 'old' life as far as possible?

1. Remove politicians whose terms should have expired from their jobs with Central Government taking over responsibility (Sadiq Khan, Andy Burnham etc)
2. Suspend use of pensioners free bus passes in order to reduce non-essential journeys
3. Close out of school activities for children in order to try and reduce the amount of virus getting into schools, including both organised groups and unorganised things like soft play
4. Close cinemas, theatres, concert halls and bingo halls to bring the arts in line with the rules on sporting events and ban the screening of sporting events in licenced premises
5. Ban Butchers and other food suppliers from taking Xmas orders above the size that 6 people could reasonably be expected to eat
6. Scrap the counter productive curfew
7. Ban all gatherings inside houses including support bubbles except for essential care for vulnerable adults (and even then require registration with the local council) to enable much easier enforcement of rules
8. Ban pay per view streaming of sporting events or movies unless they can be watched on several screens simultaneously for no extra charge
9. Encourage those of state pension age to stay at home at all times due to the particular vulnerability of this age group
10. Encourage working at home where possible but make it clear that offices should be open for those whose circumstances make working at home impossible
11. Restrict the numbers inside shops to allow social distancing
12. Ban the sale of Newspapers within shops but support newsagents to provide home delivery services
13. Introduce a scheme offering free freezers to anyone without one to enable longer between shops Probably could add a lot more but this would be a start

I really think adapting schools is key here . . .so much more transmission than hospitality / shops. Keep hospitality and shops open - implement things like bonking a time slot for non essential stores so that crowding is not an issue in run up to Christmas.

Keep primary schools and year 7/8 in full time but look at improving ventilation - windows must be open etc. Shorten school day (even if it is by 20 minutes either side) and include more breaks or classes timetabled outside. I noticed a local primary have a kind of wooden hut without sides build during this week - this would be good.

Year 9 upwards go to online learning until January - clear expectations set by Ofsted and criteria for outstanding practice. Quality monitored by ofsted and funding available to improve experience for students and teachers - to buy visualisers/Web cam/laptops.

Hoping that closing secondaries to year 9 upwards brings the level of infection to a rate that an effective and robust track and trace is set up. Almost back to the drawing board to set up but lots of manpower. We need numbers low for track and trace to be effective. Track and trace has failed and is simply fighting a tide that it can never win at the minute.

Lastly - a cross party covid committe for all future decisions. The best minds and logistical abilities from all parties and forget the politics currently at play. All parties need to step up leadership currently and present agreed consistent messaging to rebuilt public faith and willingness to buy in.

implement things like bonking a time slot for non essential stores so that crowding is not an issue in run up to Christmas

Wait, what?

Test test test.. regularly, everyone.
Pay people to isolate and support their needs (medical, caring responsibility etc)

Prob cheaper than lockdown, but requires skills to sort out, so we'll keep going with the hammer technology.

Oh, and I'd arrest anyone doing any handwringing about Christmas. FFS.

Lots of terrifying ideas in this thread by the way. Complete obliteration of democracy is not the way to encourage compliance.

"Suspend pensioners' use of free bus travel."

Wow..

@ohthegoats

Lots of terrifying ideas in this thread by the way. Complete obliteration of democracy is not the way to encourage compliance.

It is pretty frightening how some people are calling for martial law.

Reading this thread has actually made me glad it’s BJ in power and not the MN brigade 👍🏼

@Flaxmeadow

implement things like bonking a time slot for non essential stores so that crowding is not an issue in run up to Christmas

Wait, what?

Booking a slot ... awful typo sorry! Two local shops now have the option to book a slot online to visit entering from the back entrance of the shop. People still can queue at the front however they have a maximum capacity so many people are now opting to book a slot as it is much more efficient. It does sound like it would not work well however it genuinely is locally!

I'd follow the scientific advice and examples of countries who have been the most successful, NZ springs to mind! The advice is; an urgent circuit breaker, 4-6 weeks including schools. During that time, sack Deloitte and Serco, get the 12 BILLION pounds back and pass it directly to the NHS to take over track and trace. After the breaker, only schools go back with proper ventilation and masks everywhere, all of the time. Teachers to be consulted in the best approach to reopening. People furloughed are trained to staff nightingale hospitals providing CPAP oxygen support. The doctors and nurses need actual support, no more clapping! The message should be made really clear that the best hope for economic recovery is to get on top of this urgently. The nonesense of 'herd immunity' needs to be publicly ridiculed as it is so harmful. Any public figures not being the best example, sacked without delay. Clear and consistent messaging.

@Mumofsend

I would want to save Christmas. 6 week lockdown now except for work and school. Have a Christmas. Worry about 2021 when we get there.

Yes Christmas is important to people but I think that any strategy for dealing with this current crisis should absolutely not be based on this one day alone. Focus should be on getting through the winter. What's the point in spending just one day together at Christmas if it is followed by more restrictions, job lossless and misery.

The idea of triaging whether someone gets hospital care based on age/whether they live in a care home goes against every single ethical fibre I have as a nurse. There is a huge difference between someone experiencing natural decline, or worsening pathology, or repeated infections and agreeing that the person's natural life is coming to a close and the best thing would be to offer good, supportive end of life care in a familiar environment to failing to act on an acute and potentially reversible illness. Every person within my care who has had COVID, we have aimed for recovery, and if that means hospital for oxygen or CPAP or ICU, then I will fight with the last breath in my body for the people I care for to have equitable access to healthcare they have spent their entire lives financially contributing towards.

Also, people in care homes vary wildly in age-it is not uncommon to care for people in their 40s.

Sorry, it is something I am very passionate about.

That being said, the time since march should have been spent equipping care homes with the skills and equipment to deliver low flow oxygen and IV fluids-as well as IV antibitoics and paracetamol for other infections prevalent this time of year-this would decrease demand for acute admissions. Implement a quarantine unit for discharges to reduce risk of seeding into homes. Look at financial support for homes who have lost many residents due to an outbreak. Many homes are closing.

4) Ban Butchers and other food suppliers from taking Xmas orders above the size that 6 people could reasonably be expected to eat

This idea is as ridiculous as it is pointless. People have different appetites, eat varying amounts of meat, will be ordering for different periods, can order from more than one supplier if they want and have freezers giving the option of stocking up in advance anyway. It would do absolutely nothing other than place a burden on butchers, and is one of those policies that would erode trust because of how idiotic it is.

I agree with mask everywhere, both indoor and outdoor. A dedicated educational clip to teach everyone on how to maintain hygiene and mask wearing. The only way to stop the spread is to contain it, and what's better containment than keeping it behind a mask?

Masks outdoors is another idea in the so ridiculous and unenforceable that it risks further undermining confidence and compliance category.

If things get really bad then triage would be essential. Are you seriously saying Lex345 that you would see a 90-year-old from a care home take an ICU bed ahead of a 20-year-old ?

I have been abused on other threads for this view, but I stand firm that if the worst comes to the worst and care is in very short supply age should be a factor.

Treat people as adults and have a very simple message:
Limit your contacts, and remember to social distance, get tested if you have any symptoms.

Stop legislating for everything and introducing yet more rules. Get people onside by advocating common sense and making it quite clear that if hospitals are overwhelmed not everyone will be treated.

Invest in proper data collection and analysis of measures to understand what works. Share data dispassionately without scaremongering to get people onside. Start trying to establish how many people die because of Covid not with it.

Employ people to offer support to workplaces to make sure these are as safe for the employees as possible, pay people properly to self-isolate, support people who have lost their jobs / income.

Let things open up and accept there will be cases and that this isn't a problem as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed. Let people make their own decisions about risk within sensible parameters.

Show us the scientific evidence that masks reduce covid infections please - not just data modelling.

‘The only way to stop the spread is to contain it, and what's better containment than keeping it behind a mask?‘

But that’s wrong on two counts.
Ventilation is an effective way of stopping spread, and masks help slow transmission but they don’t contain it effectively.
Masks are great and we should be using them as effectively as we can but focusing on them too much and forgetting ventilation is a huge mistake (and one a lot of organisations are currently making).

Here's a small example of the effectiveness of masks:
www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

For argument sake, ask yourself this, would you prefer a stranger cough or sneeze in front of you with or without a mask during this pandemic?

I do agree ventilation is important, but then again, unless you are in the country side, it's hard to have a sufficient ventilation system that is covid safe. Mask is not the ultimate solution to this pandemic, but it's an extra step to help containing this.

I realized many don't believe in masks, but then again, many didn't believe in seat belt neither when it became compulsory in 1983, and look at us now.

What has being in the countryside got to do with it? Ventilation is just as feasible in a town.

*If things get really bad then triage would be essential. Are you seriously saying Lex345 that you would see a 90-year-old from a care home take an ICU bed ahead of a 20-year-old ?

I have been abused on other threads for this view, but I stand firm that if the worst comes to the worst and care is in very short supply age should be a factor.*

Just to be clear, I didn't abuse you nor will I for having a different view to mine.
There is a HUGE difference between the scenario you have outlined and blanket banning care home residents from hospital care. I cannot answer your question. Both options are horrible and I feel terrible for any clinician in that scenario. But age should not be a factor in access to care.

I'd infinitely rather an unmasked person coughed on me outside than there be a law trying to force us all to wear masks every time we left the house. That law would in any case be utterly unenforceable, so would not protect me from the possibility of being sneezed on.

That article is excellent as far as it goes but it was written several months ago before the importance of aerosol transmission as well as large droplet was fully appreciated and masks are considerably more effective in preventing the latter than the former. The El Pais article that has been shared elsewhere shows why it’s vital to have both- here it is again.