Immunity doesn't last and a vaccination only might work,

[Whatchasayin]

Just heard this on the news. I'm thoroughly depressed on wondering what is the point? Where on earth do we go from here? I for one give up.

Lockdown forever according to some.

Sigh, the news is so bad at reporting...

Anti-body immunity doesn't last long, most medical researchers are focussing on T CELL immunity which is entirely different

"These data should also not be taken to infer that a vaccine would only induce short term immunity. Vaccines contain immune stimulators (adjuvants) that induce durable immune responses and the administration of multiple doses of vaccine ensures that high concentrations of antibodies (that decline only slowly over time) are achieved in the majority of vaccine recipients.”
Prof Eleanor Riley, Professor of Immunology and Infectious Disease, University of Edinburgh.
www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-from-the-react-2-study-looking-at-prevalence-of-antibody-positivity-to-sars-cov-2/

They may have to administer the vaccine fairly frequently. Not the end of the world.

I think people have been led to believe a vaccination would be the solution to all this. It now seems it's unlikely to be as effective as hoped.

Don’t panic yet op. There are many many clever people all round the world working on a vaccine
Vaccines can work in several different ways so whatever they’re reporting on the news it’s not the final outcome

It’s possible we will get an annual vaccine just like the flu jab
It is going to be ok

Just heard this on the news. I'm thoroughly depressed on wondering what is the point? Where on earth do we go from here? I for one give up.

The part about antibodies really needs a respectable scientist's opinion. Immunology is hard and you can't just guess that A implies B. As examples of the subtleties involved, there are T-cells as well as antibodies, it's possible that people who were more ill produce more antibodies in the first place. Also, who knows what level of antibodies you need exactly and whether even if they go quite low if that stops you from getting as ill.

I would wait for a scientific consensus before worrying too much.

@Whatchasayin

I think people have been led to believe a vaccination would be the solution to all this. It now seems it's unlikely to be as effective as hoped.

Have you read any of the replies to your OP?

Yes to both the above - T-cell immunity, and frequent booster shots. Both are possibilities which mean that the fading of antibodies is not the end of the world.

Human beings are generally not very good at living with uncertainty. We want to KNOW. And we do know a hell of a lot more about Covid than we did 9 months ago. There remains a lot we don’t know, some of which we can not possibly know until more time has elapsed.

Social distancing will not be for ever. (That’s a hope, but based I believe on evidence)

Media winding up people again...without fully explaining & causing people to misunderstand :(

‘ The study only measured antibodies. The authors said it was not possible to determine whether the loss of antibody positivity would correlate with an increased risk of an individual being reinfected since it was not clear what contribution T cell immunity and memory responses played in protective immunity during re-exposure.

T cells are part of the immune system that defends against specific foreign pathogens.’

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/covid-19-immunity-is-the-pandemics-central-mystery/614956/

A vaccine would probably trigger longer lasting immunity whereas catching the virus won’t. It’s typical of other coronaviruses to be able to reinfect people after 6-12 months sometimes earlier.
Thing is they haven’t seen that happen in enough people yet as it hasn’t been long enough for most people who have been infected once. Also there is a chance that symptoms are milder, but this isn’t guaranteed we may find some people get it worse second time round. My main concern is long Covid which doesn’t just happen in the elderly or more vulnerable adults and the more times you are infected the higher your chances of developing it.
Long Covid is something that could cause life long problems. It is recognised a lot more now.

Bring on the vaccine it seems like our only real chance of restoring some normality

People are being a bit ‘all or noting’ about the vaccine.

It doesn’t have to be anything close to perfect to make a big difference to our situation.

From Coffee's excellent article:

The fact that you don’t have measurable antibodies doesn’t mean that you aren’t immune. T-cells could continue to provide adaptive immunity even if the antibodies tap out. Memory B-cells, if they persist, could quickly replenish antibody levels even if the current stocks are low. And, crucially, we still don’t know how many neutralizing antibodies you need to be protected against COVID-19

Behavioural scientists advising the government have likely been suggesting leaks to media to increase take up of the vaccine.

@cathyandclare

From Coffee's excellent article:

The fact that you don’t have measurable antibodies doesn’t mean that you aren’t immune. T-cells could continue to provide adaptive immunity even if the antibodies tap out. Memory B-cells, if they persist, could quickly replenish antibody levels even if the current stocks are low. And, crucially, we still don’t know how many neutralizing antibodies you need to be protected against COVID-19

You see the key word in that paragraph is “could” whereas as a vaccine would be developed in the hope that it does provide immunity or at least make the disease mild. “Could” provide immunity and “could” protect us from long Covid or complications isn’t going to help us open up the country and restore some normality. The T cell immunity and how effective they are and whether everyone produces this response or not is difficult for scientist to measure, so we possibly won’t be taking that for granted as it’s only a theory and the way things are going we need something more concrete and fast.

Aside from the fact that lack of antibodies does not equal lack of immunity, the vaccines are not limited by the immune response the body produces to natural infection.

As an example, the Oxford vaccine is using an attenuated chimp adenovirus as a vector as I understand it. The body produces a more robust immune response to adenoviruses than it does to coronaviruses. The hope therefore is that the vaccine will produce a better level of immunity that natural infection does.

This was put out by Imperial College which seems to derive some kind of perverse pleasure out of spinning any developments in the most negative light possible. I'd wait for a more balanced/credible viewpoint before jumping to any conclusions on this.

Thanks for the reassurance. I'm feeling so negative at the moment.

@toxtethOgradyUSA

This was put out by Imperial College which seems to derive some kind of perverse pleasure out of spinning any developments in the most negative light possible. I'd wait for a more balanced/credible viewpoint before jumping to any conclusions on this.

Makes you wonder how they'll comment when their own vaccine comes out!

Let’s hope someone puts a downer on their vaccine.

Oxford will come out of this looking dignified and professional. Imperial have done themselves no favours and seem like dramatic divas who mainly get things wrong

Good article on various types of immunity in the human body:

www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-is-the-role-of-t-cells-in-covid-19-infection-why-immunity-is-about-more-than-antibodies/

Antibodies are the easiest thing to measure, but there is far more to the immune system.

@Whatchasayin there are 300 vaccines being developed. 3 are towards the end of stage 3 testing. They are hopeful of at least 1 of these to be ready at some point in December.
There's a good video on YouTube about stage1/2 results on Oxford vaccine tests. If you cant find it I put the link in the Novovax post.