'Reading week returners '...

[Bailey0703]

DD1 deferred so life has been pretty quiet for her last few weeks. Just work and home, Bf (also deferred). and a couple of mates.. Now all of a sudden there is a flurry of activity as 'most friends are coming home for reading week as they are really bored'

In her circle this means 3 from London, 2 from Sheffield 1 from Liverpool and two from Nottingham. With the exception of one from London All the others have come by train.. to a TIER 1 area..

Am I right in thinking this will actually spread the virus and our relatively small cases will jump in a couple of weeks .. and that the Universities /Govt should have done something to stop this. ? (As guessing DDs friends are not the only ones doing this ?)

Thank you Xenia.

The guidance on what is guidance and what is law is very muddled. I would not knowingly break the law but I’m not going to assume that the information being put about is factually correct.

@TawnyPippit - Unfortunately I have been unable to find clarity on how the law specifically applies to students living in halls. Until this is available students and their parents will have to make their own judgements.

Why the hell would anyone need a law or advice ?

Is it not just common sense that if your child lives in an area with HIGH levels of infection - gets on a train to an area of LOW infection , and you multiply that by 10's of thousands .. you just set up another whole spread of the wretched disease .

No MY kids will not be coming home. One in Tier 2 another in Tier 2 going to Tier 3 soon . We are Tier 1. I will not support them spreading this .

Students’ and young people’s mental health is so important. I believe there have already been something like 8 deaths in university accommodation since September.

COVID is not the only risk that exists, despite some people’s attempts to ignore everything else. I would certainly not be preventing my DC from coming home.

Unless you have someone over 75 or very vulnerable at home, you are at little more risk than your 18 year olds. It’s a shame some people have lost all sense of proportion due to the constant scaremongering.

@Bailey0703

Why the hell would anyone need a law or advice ?

Is it not just common sense that if your child lives in an area with HIGH levels of infection - gets on a train to an area of LOW infection , and you multiply that by 10's of thousands .. you just set up another whole spread of the wretched disease .

No MY kids will not be coming home. One in Tier 2 another in Tier 2 going to Tier 3 soon . We are Tier 1. I will not support them spreading this .

I sort of agree with this sentiment. What seems relatively harmless on an individual level becomes extremely problematic at a population level.

Unless you have someone over 75 or very vulnerable at home, you are at little more risk than your 18 year olds. It’s a shame some people have lost all sense of proportion due to the constant scaremongering

These students came an on public transport, and may be planning meet ups. People in their home are almost certainly not living in isolation.

This is exactly how transmission to wider and vulnerable communities follows in from campus outbreaks.

@Bailey0703

Why the hell would anyone need a law or advice ?

Is it not just common sense that if your child lives in an area with HIGH levels of infection - gets on a train to an area of LOW infection , and you multiply that by 10's of thousands .. you just set up another whole spread of the wretched disease .

No MY kids will not be coming home. One in Tier 2 another in Tier 2 going to Tier 3 soon . We are Tier 1. I will not support them spreading this .

This is exactly the concern that many had re the university infection rates. As much as students deserve a life, surely it is common sense that migration en masse is not a good idea during a pandemic. On the cusp of winter nonetheless.

We are in Tier 1-as is DD at Uni.

DD is not coming home for Reading week but will come early for Christmas and self isolate in her room if necessary.

One of her housemates took an overdose last night but is thankfully ok.
Existing mental health problems are being exacerbated by lack of support and stress of lock down.
It is like walking a tightrope at the moment.

@ShaunaTheSheep

Not all youngsters are self absorbed but sadly it seems many are ..

If your child was away from home and struggling with being at uni in COVID times would you tell her she couldn't come home? Thought not.

In the nicest possible way, mind your own business. Students have enough to deal with this year without this incessant whining about them spreading the virus.

@ShaunaTheSheep

Yup!

The unis really should have cancelled reading week. This looks like a mistake.

In the nicest possible way, mind your own business.

The difficulty is that a general rise in cases is everyone’s business.

@TawnyPippit

The gov.uk website states on the COVID part relating to university students “You must not move backward and forward between your permanent home and term time address during term time – subject to limited exemptions set out in law.“

This makes me so angry, when did we become so complacent about civil liberties for the young being eroded by corrupt governments who are also willing to staff school children??

Can't ask the elderly and vulnerable to self isolate but it's ok to lock students up in halls of residence where they have a room and that's it. Why is this?

I think some of you have no idea how difficult Uni life for first years can be this year.

But I do hope that they'll build up some immunity to Covid very quickly.

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

Unless you have someone over 75 or very vulnerable at home, you are at little more risk than your 18 year olds. It’s a shame some people have lost all sense of proportion due to the constant scaremongering

These students came an on public transport, and may be planning meet ups. People in their home are almost certainly not living in isolation.

This is exactly how transmission to wider and vulnerable communities follows in from campus outbreaks.

Quite. It would be one thing for them to return and be confined to their bedroom, or for the whole household to self-isolate with them (that means no one goes out to work/to the shops). Quite another to return home and get straight out socialising.

The first issue will be is Wales involved as there are restrictions for some moving between England and Wales.
If not Wales and someone were moving between say Bristol where my son is and London where I live - Tier 3 to tier 2 that's allowed as far as I know under the legislation (the guidance is not the law and is not legally binding). If I went to Bristol from London (tier 2 to tier 3) the restrictions to which I am subject move with me you take your local restrictions in England to the tier in which you go.

So for example last night my son had 3 friends in London here for a meal for his birthday outside in the garden in the dark - it was cold, wet and looked really uncomfortable to eat in but they seemed to enjoy it - and those 3 boys did not come in my house as this is tier 2 so they can meet outside but not in (and whether in or out rule of 6 applies across England except for exceptions like work meetings, training, work, school etc).

If he went to Bristol - tier 3 he would still be subject to tier 2 restrictions.

In general the state has made the rules so complicated it is very hard for people to be legally compliant.

These are the tier 2 (London etc) current restrictions www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1104/contents/made

Schedule 1 for London etc is all about gatherings www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1104/schedule/1/made

This is part of schedule 1 (and I stress this is in the regulations applicable to London and other tier 2). This is the but that says my London son cannot gather with his 3 friends in my house and they eat in the dark in the rain and cold for the good of the nation. (Or supposedly the good of the nation - whether this really helps anyone is yet to be properly proven)....

Participation in gatherings indoors

"1.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area which—

(a)consists of two or more people, and

(b)takes place indoors.

(2) No person living in the Tier 2 area may participate in a gathering outside that area which—

(a)consists of two or more people, and

(b)takes place indoors.

(3) Sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) do not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 4 apply.
Participation in gatherings outdoors

2.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area which—

(a)consists of more than six people, and

(b)takes place outdoors.

(2) No person living in the Tier 2 area may participate in a gathering outside that area which—

(a)consists of more than six people, and

(b)takes place outdoors.

(3) Sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) do not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 5 apply.

(4) This paragraph does not permit a person to participate in a gathering in the Tier 2 area in contravention of paragraph 1(2) or 2(2) of Schedule 1 to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local COVID-19 Alert Level) (Very High) (England) Regulations 2020. "

If he went to Bristol - tier 3 he would still be subject to tier 2 restrictions

This is not the case

You follow the restrictions which apply to either the area you are in, or the area where you live, whichever is the higher (it's all laid as 'no person in a tier 3 area', not 'no resident')

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1105/schedule/1

If you are tier 3 and travel to tier 2 you can only be indoors with people from your household/bubble. You should also avoid travelling to lower tier areas unless necessary, though it is not illegal and there are exemptions for work, education and caring responsibilities.

Uni students should never have been encouraged/conned into going to Uni last month anyway. It was a stupid decision and consequences were entirely foreseeable. Fair enough for the likes of medical students and lab-based courses where they NEEDED to be on campus, but if courses could have been done entirely remotely, they should have been.

What we now have is students who've been basically stuck in their tiny flats for a month, who've had little, if any "face to face" teaching, little or no social/sports/clubs activities, etc. It's no surprise those at Unis with a reading week want to go home, just for a change of scenery and some human interaction. I suspect many won't be returning to Uni this term and will review after Christmas whether they go back in January.

In reality, where F2F isn't happening, the Unis should release students from their accommodation contracts, let them trickle back home over the next few weeks, and just accept remote/online learning until next Summer with the hope of a proper return to normal lectures/tutorials, etc next October.

@sonnenscheins

Can't ask the elderly and vulnerable to self isolate but it's ok to lock students up in halls of residence where they have a room and that's it. Why is this?

I think some of you have no idea how difficult Uni life for first years can be this year.

But I do hope that they'll build up some immunity to Covid very quickly.

They won't build up immunity to covid if they're basically stuck in their rooms though, will they?

At my son's Uni, he will have only 4 "face to face" tutorials over the whole term, approx one every 2 weeks. There's just nothing happening. There are college common rooms, bars, cafes, etc., but they can't mix with other flats. Even in their flat (8 persons), the only communal area is a tiny kitchen with a small kitchen table and 4 chairs, which they literally can't all fit in at once, so they're mostly just using the kitchen to cook and then returning to their rooms to eat their meals.

They're not building up any immunity because they're not able to go out and mix with other people and there aren't any activities where covid can be passed around. Except for parties etc., which are few and far between as the majority of students are sensible and avoiding them.

So, people thinking Uni students are building up immunity are barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid. Yes, the few who are partying and ignoring the rules will be, but the majority aren't!

DD hasn't even considered coming home for reading week, not sure she can as she's in Scotland. We were talking last night, and as she has work lined up over Xmas, she's thinking isolate for a week or so, coming home and isolate from us another week. At the moment they can't mix with other households up there, so she's pretty low risk.

@starfish4

There is absolutely no need for your DC to ‘isolate’ from you in your home unless you have someone extremely vulnerable in the household.

Fara, but wasn't I right about that you take your tier with you when you go for high to low? So if my London son ( tier2) goes to tier 3 (Bristol where his twin is) he takes for himself tied 2 restrictions with him rather than suddenly being more free to mingle indoors? I thought I was right on that?

I think that if students are coming home as a long term plan - e.g. until after Christmas, due to issues where they are or due to struggling with mental health - then it is OK for them to come home, be really stringent for a couple of weeks then adopt the rules of their home area. Exactly whether they need to isolate from the rest of the household depends on the nature of that household and the work they do - if living with someone vulnerable or someone who works in a care home or somewhere where PPE cannot be worn, then isolation is really important. If living with non-vulnerable adults who wfh, then not so much of an issue.

If it is literally for a short break, then why?

Fara, but wasn't I right about that you take your tier with you when you go for high to low? So if my London son ( tier2) goes to tier 3 (Bristol where his twin is) he takes for himself tied 2 restrictions with him rather than suddenly being more free to mingle indoors

Spotted the confusion - Bristol is tier 1 (not 3) and in that scenario we are both correct. His tier 2 restrictions (being the higher of where he lives/where he is) are the ones which apply.

If he had been going to a tier 3 area, such as Sheffield, then it would be tier 3 which applied

They won't build up immunity to covid if they're basically stuck in their rooms though, will they?

According to DS (also on a gap year), 'Nearly all my friends who've gone to Uni have had Covid by now.' Allowing for minor exaggeration, it does seem to have rampaged through multi-student households in the first few weeks of term, with whole flats of 12 or 17 students coming down with it.

Maybe some of the returners have finished their isolation.

@TawnyPippit

Yes, these are the Tier 2 regs so I think they would apply to anyone moving to or from Tiers 2 (or 3), but not if you just are moving Tier 1 to Tier 1.

(I’m not an obsessive, I just had a look to see if there was a quick answer when DS was talking about potentially coming home for reading week but it became moot anyway as he went into lockdown).

Dd is in a tier 1 area as are we

If anything changes we will cross that bridge when we come to it