Pressure on frontline NHS staff

[addictedtotheflats]

Im a senior nurse in an a&e department in a Tier 2 area and its SO busy. I’ve been so resilient and positive (mentally not covid) but I think its getting a bit much now. Im sick of see posts in the media about how hospitals are empty and NHS workers are basically dossing. A&e is constantly full, we have 25+ covid patients waiting for beds upto 18 hours who we are expected to care for on top of 60+ other patients. This wave is different to the last one, people werent coming in for minor ailments in april-june but now people arent scared, we are the easy option for people to get seen by a doctor on the same day. Symptomatic patients lining the corridors because we have no more isolation space, staff going off for 2 weeks either positive or exposed in the household, I just feel like its beyond unsustainable, my team all work so hard 24/7. I’m not sure what I want from this post, just finished a hideous 13 hour shift, half of which felt unsafe because of acuity, high attendances and staffing pressures. Anyone else in the same situation?

@bumblejee

Ecosse, who manages to be on nearly every thread regarding coronovirus & appears to know the ins & outs of every institution dealing with it!

Much like SheepandCow who also seems to be on all these threads.

Thank you to all our NHS staff and carers, whatever your role might be

@walksen

The true death rate from COVID is very difficult to estimate due to the large number of asymptomatic cases.

But if we look at somewhere like South Korea that has done lots of testing, the fatality rate for a 45 year old would be somewhere around 0.1%. This will depend on health conditions so for a healthy 45 year old it will be even lower- possibly at around 0.05%.

A 45 year old has a 0.03% chance of dying in a year on average. So the risk of a healthy 45 year old not only catching COVID but then going on to die from it is less than the risk of them dying from another cause in an average year.

@tobee

"That's about half the NHS staff off work then! Plenty of doctors, nurses, and other HCP are over 45, or have diabetes, or hypertension, or are overweight, or have another high risk condition putting them in the vulnerable group."

Those people are not the people who were shielding though. So that's an emotive comment.

Shielding list or not, these are the people at very highest risk. I'd assume those talking of shielding The Vulnerable would want that to apply to those most at risk. Whether practical or not is another matter.

@tobee
You must be on all the threads I'm on...To know where I'm posting... which both of us are entitled to do. In any case, I've posted on at most four threads today. Hardly everywhere. One wasn't even Covid related!

I don't want to derail a NHS worker support thread so I'll leave it now. I only wanted to pop in to thank all of you HCP for everything you're doing under so much pressure and stress. (I shouldn't imagine Covid deniers and minimalisers help matters.)

Thank you for what you're doing.

"A 45 year old has a 0.03% chance of dying in a year on average. So the risk of a healthy 45 year old not only catching COVID but then going on to die from it is less than the risk of them dying from another cause in an average year."

Not sure that follows from your analysis. Seems like the risk of dying from covid for a 45 year old is broadly the same as all others combined. (Albeit still low in absolute terms) We then have to account for the probability of catching covid in the first place which will vary by setting but has to be very high for anyone in the NHS. Hell I just work in a school and we have had a third of staff absent with covid in the last two weeks

Plus of course there are reports that some people suffer permanent lung damage etc. This is yet to be quantified but it would be very reckless to ignore it for someone who has 20 to 25 years of work ahead of them

Ecosse do you have evidence that only those who were in the shielding category end up being admitted to hospital with covid, or at least that they form at least 90%? What about modelling as to what percentage of non shielded might require admission as the virus spreads?

@Ecosse,this thread is not about statistics and who is or isn’t going to die from Covid!!

This is about the pressure hospitals are under and Staff who are at the end of their tether.

Thankyou to all working in our underfunded inadequate NHS.

@SheepandCow I just don't like to see posts which support a case I largely agree with undermine themselves with incorrect comments.

@bumblejee

Ecosse, who manages to be on nearly every thread regarding coronovirus & appears to know the ins & outs of every institution dealing with it!

At least she hasn't starting telling all the NHS workers again they need to be put on new contracts so they can be sent round the country where the need is because 'we can't have nurses sitting idle in Plymouth' apparently.....she has no regard for NHS workers so I wouldn't bother engaging with her.

I really feel for all NHS workers. They are already being painted into a position where any cancelling of non urgent care will be their fault for being lazy. Gaslighting over and over again, with all sectors.

Thank you for all of your replies, I honestly don’t know what the solution is... I get it, its so hard at the minute, having to deal with the challenges at work, having to deal with covid (not just in a healthcare profession capacity) and having no down time socially I don’t think I can judge people on decisions they make regarding seeing family and getting away for a few days.

With regards to what kind of patients we are seeing I would say 95% don’t have age on their side and have multiple comorbidities, I have yet to come across a young healthy person dying or needing ICU admission.

@alexdgr8 yes exactly. Its a term we use to which measures the level of nursing care a patient requires. A sprain - low acuity, a patient requiring resus care - high acuity.

@StarCat2020 - unfortunately no that would most probably lead to disciplinary action for bringing negative attention to the Trust, probably putting my registration at risk. This is why you see very few whistle blowing registered nurses.

Again, thank you for the support and encouraging words, I feel better getting it off my chest. I’m going to enjoy my (one) day off with my DS and get back to the grind tomorrow. Keep safe everyone

[quote Ecosse]@walksen

The true death rate from COVID is very difficult to estimate due to the large number of asymptomatic cases.

But if we look at somewhere like South Korea that has done lots of testing, the fatality rate for a 45 year old would be somewhere around 0.1%. This will depend on health conditions so for a healthy 45 year old it will be even lower- possibly at around 0.05%.

A 45 year old has a 0.03% chance of dying in a year on average. So the risk of a healthy 45 year old not only catching COVID but then going on to die from it is less than the risk of them dying from another cause in an average year.[/quote]
Well another way to look at that is the chance of 45 year old dying goes from 0.03% in a year to 0.1%.if they catch Covid which is an increase of over 300%. Even 0.03 to 0.05 (which isn't relevant unless you can accurately determine 'healthy' in the same way as you can age for everyone and there were never any unknown health conditions ) is over 150% increased risk of death this year compared to a normal year for a 45 year old. What about those of us aged over 50?

Whilst I take your point about the risk of death being small to begin with , the stakes are as high as the can get ( ie death)

Once you start looking at the risk of being long term ill and not death those percentages look even worse.

Ecosse
Do you not need empathy as a management consultant?

OP - the nhs has been let down badly by the government over many years. I’m sorry you’re having to work in such difficult and distressing circumstances. It’s shit. I hope you’re managing to look after yourself.

I’m so angry you’re in this position.

Very sympathetic to NHS staff. Long live the NHS!

Take care of yourselves x

@Ecosse how about a bit of compassion.
OP is looking for support.

@addictedtotheflats I’m also struggling, it’s hideous

Thank you for everything that you do. I wish there was a stronger message coming from central government about supporting the NHS as we go into winter.

@addictedtotheflats
Sorry about the shit idea.

Thank you for what you do.

Completely empathise how you feel. My partner is a senior radiographer, and is often forgotten about but he is frontline and is struggling. He’s working 6/7 day weeks and now his PPE is just a small flimsy surgical mask that the public are wearing; even for Covid positive patients. He isn’t allowed to wear a fit mask unless he’s doing cpr. Isn’t allowed a visor. He feels incredibly exposed and everyone is a risk.
He’s been yelled at, spat at, coughed at (by accident and on purpose) sworn, hit... mostly by Covid patients that he is trying to help. It’s disgusting.

Thanks for everything op .... this is the governments fault and people like Matt Hancock and senior nhs management .... lots of people are suffering too due to them with severe mental health and no help the whole thing is a shit show

Stay strong hunny x

@addictedtotheflats

It’s shit isn’t it? A&E doc here, I cried on the shop floor yesterday as I’d just had enough. It’s just too sad, and so stressful.

We were supposed to be having a seaside holiday in a family caravan today, but haven’t gone as we’re in a tier 3 area. My sister and her family decided to go instead, as it’s free, even though they are also tier 3. It feels like a kick in the teeth from someone who’s supposed to have my back.

[quote Ecosse]@bumblejee

I am a management consultant by trade so I know very well how different organisations operate.[/quote]
That is as maybe

But your COVID denying stance is tiresome.

It would do you good to LISTEN to who is being affected by Covid & stop your shouting about it only being the elderly or a few younger with serious underlying issues.

I want to thank you, I had Covid and was discharged from hospital this week with pneumonia and no immune system. I am in my 30s, healthy BMI and am not deemed vulnerable. It was terrible. The nurses were saying the same, they are scared for when flu season starts. I appreciate the risks you are taking and the work you are doing.

The NHS & School Staff are all being silenced, it's disgusting.

There ARE lots of us who are 'staying home' & doing what we can not to end up with Covid, not only for our own sake, but for that of the NHS as well. It must be incredibly difficult to see & hear about people ignoring the rules.

To all the NHS Staff who are working through this, thank you 🌷

I don't know what else any of us can do, but try to avoid becoming yet another patient, but please let us know if there's anything
NHS 🌈💕

@Ilovemycat13
He should be provided with a visor and I feel guilty for suggesting this but Amazon are selling them.

Thanks to him