Should we all have bubbles?

[Racoonworld]

I’ve been reading a lot of these threads and it seems that everyone feels they should have a bubble of some kind, support bubble, childcare bubble (using for childcare not just childcare), bubble because of mental health, bubble because they are just seeing those people, bubble because kids are together at school. I know some of these are allowed but others aren’t and are doing it anyway. I’m including myself in this too, no ‘bubble’ but we see in-laws without social distancing because I have a new baby and I want them to be able to see and bond with the baby occasionally. So if the majority have formed a bubble anyway wouldn’t it be easier if everyone was allowed one bubble? Wood more people stick to it then? I know I would.

This is what we had in Wales, we could have up to four households in our bubble.

The reality was for us it was things like adult DD wanted her boyfriend here, fine but then technically his family who he lives with but we've never met are in our bubble. So then that means if my parents or PIL want to be see us then they also have to have DD's boyfriend and his parents in the bubble over one of DH's siblings.
DS1 wanted to see his best friend so then another whole family, 5 of who we've never met are in our bubble.
We took the decision to not have PIL in the house. as we had three people working in busy shops all day and they are carers for DH's Nan but it really pissed them off. They'd have just had endless visitors just not all at the same time.

It's unnecessary mixing of people.

The bubbles that exist are there for a reason and we are in a bubble with our daughter for emotional support and childcare. We still see our other daughter and could see other friends and family if we wanted to. It's really not a hardship, although I'm an introvert and could happily exist in a bubble with just my husband.

Also if bubbles are just "there" with no practical purpose then it will be a free for all, in effect. I can't think of anyone else who we would bubble with who would want to be in an exclusive bubble with just us. Random bubbles all over the place is just another name for mixing as normal. Kind of defeats the object.

@knittingaddict I’m not talking about random bubbles all over the place I’m talking about one defined bubbled per household, whatever the reason. If people don’t want to use it that’s fine but it would help a lot of people. You said you’ve formed a support bubble with your daughter for emotional support and childcare. I’m assuming she is a single adult household? That’s great as she needs it, but don’t you think others should be allowed emotional support too?

@notso yes I can see the issue that every person would want a different one. But people would have to do what you did and pick one bubble that’s best for the whole family. I’d love to have multiple bubbles myself but can see that we can’t have that. One each is a compromise that is an improvement on what we are currently allowed.

The whole point of bubbles for single adults is that if you’re in a household with other adults, they are your support! If you have your spouse or parents or adult children, you have support! If you’re living alone or are a single parent you have zero support and that’s why bubbles are for single adult households. And I don’t think that should change.

And given how many people already ignore the rules about mixing households, I don’t think it would make a blind bit of difference if you allowed them to have a bubble anyway. “Give them and inch and they’ll take a mile” with people will fully misunderstanding and swapping bubbles on a daily basis.

@Racoonworld I'll be interested to see if the four household bubbles come back after the fire break lockdown. It would be easier for us now as DD is away at university and the other DC are seeing friends at school and college.

I appreciate it's not easy, haven't been able to go to two funerals myself and I know five who've had Covid, one got off lightly, two still suffering, two lost their lives. I've accepted I probably won't see my lovely Uncle again - not going to risk a visit as he has lung problems.

However, a bubble really should be to support people who are on their own/don't have much interaction from say work, or perhaps an elderly couple who are unable to go out and need help around the house.
have company and support. If you're a couple/have a family you have daily company. We really need to protect people and keep numbers down.

@starfish4 I understand that and agree that it was really needed for single people at the beginning. However this is going on a long time until at least spring so no I don’t think it’s fair that it’s just single people now, others need support too. I suffer from mental health issues, at the beginning of my pregnancy (before lockdown) my midwife asked if I had a support system of family and friends. I had considered this before getting pregnant as I knew I would find it hard. Well yes I do, but now I cannot use that support. There are many reasons that people need support. All reasons are valid. Everyone should be able to have one bubble if they want it.

It's unnecessary mixing of people

Is it though? I'm not so sure. I don't think all of the people who need some kind of support have been able to access it with what's technically 'allowed'.

For example, I am increasingly aware of how much harder socialising is now for people whose hobbies/leisure time have never been spent in an 'organised' way or particularly for families who don't have the money for organised activities. I am a single parent so I can have a support bubble. Yet my children spend several hours a week with their closest friends in a 'permitted' fashion because they are in a dance studio. While children's activities are open, more affulent children who have those kind of hobbies are far better off than other children. I also get to see some of my friends in this way.

I don't think that seeing one other family in your home to give other children (and adults!) some social contact is any more 'unnecessary' than allowing sports and hobbies to continue.

Having said that, I think it would impossible to put in a formal exemption of the kind you're talking about without it becoming a free for all. What I think many people have done is set up one or tow exemptions that they are allowing themselves. Which is against the rules and probably unhelpful but I can't judge them for it.

[quote Racoonworld]@knittingaddict I’m not talking about random bubbles all over the place I’m talking about one defined bubbled per household, whatever the reason. If people don’t want to use it that’s fine but it would help a lot of people. You said you’ve formed a support bubble with your daughter for emotional support and childcare. I’m assuming she is a single adult household? That’s great as she needs it, but don’t you think others should be allowed emotional support too?[/quote]
Yes she is a single parent and needs our support for many reasons and I dread to think how she would be if we weren't able to give that support. She needs it. As a married person, I don't.

You've been told why your idea won't work by many people on here, so no need for me to add any more.

I agree @Racoonworld a really strict, one household bubble, so not 2 or 3 mixtures, but for any reason. It would facilitate childcare, or couples who live apart but with adult children, or elderly parents etc. I think less rules would be broken. Let's face it, it would make policing it a lot easier as at the moment people are making their own risk assessments. I've stuck to the rules rigidly and am still in a T1 but on borrowed time in there! When we go to T2 it will mean I can't see my fiance as I live with my 18 year old daughter and he cares for his elderly mum at his home (he is out at work for the day but goes home to take over from the carers as she has dementia) I am not taking the mick and am not seeing parents etc as even though we are allowed I'm trying to limit the number of people I am mixing with, however, we have both said that after 5 years together we are not going to stay apart again, we did it for the first 11 weeks but this could go on for months. Quite happy to not see anyone else!

So if everyone was allowed a bubble it would solve this?
As you said some people have formed a 'bubble,' whether it is allowed or not. So you want rule-breaking to be legitimised? The bubbles are already too big in schools.

No. I don't agree with it as I can't see how it will stop the spread of the virus. More will form what they decide is their bubble and then they'll make another exception for meeting up with someone else and another and another.......

We have a 'bubble' with DHs two elderly parents. His mum has lung cancer and although currently responding to treatment she has a life limiting condition. Is she really going to never see her only son and grandchild face to face again before the end of her life?! To me that's taking away her most basic human rights.

We are super careful and social distance when we see them. We will have to plan how we continue to meet in the winter months, as like a PP said meeting them outside isn't practical. Most likely my DH will continue to visit and we'll keep DS on video link.

How does it work though?
My parents and step parents and step parents have 7 dc between them. 1 is in forrin. 4 have children.

I'm the only one who genuinely and legitimately qualifies for a support bubble. My siblings are always coming up with reasons for why they need a bubble more than I do. I can imagine if they were made legal then I would lose my support in favour of the siblings who shout the loudest. :(

I don't really understand the rules around childcare bubbles. My parents help with childcare, they do occasional pick ups when I have to work, and days in the holidays. They are having my children one day next week. In their house because I only WFH these days, DH gets a day a week in the office but it changes from week to week. We are top tier. So technically am I allowed in my parents garden to drop the children off with their activities for the day? Or should I stand on the pavement and let the kids go in by themselves? Or because we are a childcare bubble do I get to drop in for a cuppa as well?

It just wouldn't be practical in larger, older families. The teenagers would be as depressed and fed up with the family as they were during proper lockdown, the preteen would have no reason to emerge from their room and it is hard enough even with the promise of seeing a friend. I work entirely online now, not even video calls so it would be nice for me to see someone outside the family. Dh is similar. There is no one family who would satisfy all our needs. Can't mix with one family without disadvantaging others in the family. We are not in a high tier so we continue to socialise in socially distanced way.

my neighbour has a shagging bubble

@Racoonworld

The idea would be that the usual rules apply but everyone would be allowed on exemption. So you would still be able to meet a friend at a pub (in T1) but have one actual exemption where your allowed to see another household properly. So no switching bubbles, no multiple bubbles, everyone agrees to that bubble. Really easy, clear cut, no room for arguments or ambiguity. Some would pick the current support bubble, some a bubble for childcare, others another family to socialise with.

I dont see how this makes it easier or more clear-cut.

Your argument seems to be that if the rules were changed to accommodate what you are doing anyway then you would stick to the rules?

@Love51

I don't really understand the rules around childcare bubbles. My parents help with childcare, they do occasional pick ups when I have to work, and days in the holidays. They are having my children one day next week. In their house because I only WFH these days, DH gets a day a week in the office but it changes from week to week. We are top tier. So technically am I allowed in my parents garden to drop the children off with their activities for the day? Or should I stand on the pavement and let the kids go in by themselves? Or because we are a childcare bubble do I get to drop in for a cuppa as well?

With the current rules no you aren’t allowed inside for a cuppa or into their garden. Childcare bubbles are just got childcare, they don’t have the same rules as support bubbles.

@Palavah well at the moment we see family properly. If this bubble was brought in we would stick to one household only. Do more compliance. If we went into T2 or 3 it would allow us still to have some proper interaction

So you'd go from seeing several households 'properly' to only seeing one? Why?

I think it would be nice to have a bubble, I'm on my own with dp and have health issues so not always managable for me to meet a friend to go out for walks. I'd like to see my parents particularly my mum as shes struggling and still a full time carer for a sibling but they live too far away for a meet in a park, but I do understand I'm in a better position than most and am just tolerating it for now.

100% we should all have bubbles- I’ve written to my MP regarding the same thing, he hasn’t replied of course!! In wales they had extended households- effectively everyone was allowed a social bubble. I find the bubbling which is allowed in England ridiculous and I’m sure that if everyone was allowed an exclusive bubble then far more people would limit their social interactions to just their bubble. Additionally, the government wouldn’t be effectively criminalising millions of parents and children.

I am currently on Mat leave, baby was born 1 week exactly before lockdown. So had I 100% complied with the rules my child would now be 7 months old and never have been held by anyone other than her parents and brother. I’m not going to get started on my worries for her emotional, social development as I think that speaks for itself. Additionally my 6 year old wouldn’t have been allowed to go near his grandparents or have a sleepover at their house other than for about 4 weeks in the summer.

However, had we known someone who was a single adult household and I been at work then my children would be legally allowed to mix with both that single adult household and their kids and their grandparents for childcare when I was working. So basically as everyone we know is able to hold down a relationship and I’m on mat leave our kids are effectively being penalised.

This makes me very angry- can you tell!

I'm in a family of 4 of us which as a unit pretty much anihilates any informal social contact as a family due to the fucking rule of 6.

I sobbed from loneliness a few months back. Constantly with others and never having a break in my own home, and constantly drained by an absence of fresh input into conversation..
An autistic 9 yo who constantly talks about minecraft and WW2 battle strategy (Pacific Front) in mind numbing, repetitive detail.
A 7yo obsessed with pokemon.
A DH WFH, physically but not mentally present at least 8 hours a day, constant background one-sided conversation about phlanges, valves and pressures, and in his free time he's a bit too interested in the American election.
I love them, but gosh I regularly need fresh input and variety!

Things are better at the moment with a bit of small talk on the school run, and at outdoor fitness classes. But they're not meaningful friendships.

I have a human need to see my friends. All we want is the spare children tipping us over the arbitary 6 to be irrelevant and just walk in peace and walk and talk meaningfully.

I want it to not be illegal for my DCs to see their cousins without having to split the family.

Bubbles for single and vulnerable people are essential. But everyone should be able to maintain a meaningful relationship (friend/ family) in person. Being trapped with your family 24/7 is not necessarily fulfilling enough to meet your social needs.
The end result in June was ending up sobbing at a friends house on their sofa because of torrential rain and getting pissed. The human need for contact is very very strong and realistically this is limping on for a year before a substantial easing of restrictions from the initial lockdown. That is far too long to deprive people of the right to proper contact with family and friends.

I agree with OP that asking too much of people for so long means they are more likely to say fuck it, and not obey the rules at all. I also agree that people need each other and this separation is really bad for us.

However I am concerned that people living alone would end up screwed over once again. We were already forced into isolation for far too long with no consideration. Posters don't seem to understand that our support bubble is a replacement for living with others. It's not some perk we get that means we get more than others, it simply levels things a bit so things aren't actually worse for those living alone.

BogRollBOGOF Being trapped with your family 24/7 is not necessarily fulfilling enough to meet your social needs.

And neither is living alone able to meet with one person/family.
If every household is allowed a bubble, then people living alone should be allowed to bubble with two other households. Maybe one of them should have to be another single adult household.

My other concern is that single people will get left out and totally isolated. At least at the moment we're a novelty, people can only bubble with us! But if everyone had a bubble I can see single people getting dropped by families who choose instead to bubble with another family.