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NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 16/10/2020 18:06

The NEU has called for a two week closure of secondary schools and colleges following a more than 9-fold increase in the infection rate in secondary school children in a month.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-teachers-demand-2-week-school-closures-after-cases-jump

The infection rate in Y7-11 was 0.5% last week, according to the ONS survey of random households, but this nearly doubled to 0.93% in the latest set of figures. This rise cannot be ignored or passed off as relating to university students as has happened so far.

In other, entirely unrelated news, 61% of teachers report that if a student doesn't wear a mask in a school where they are mandated in communal areas 'nothing happens'.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-61-staff-say-nothing-done-if-pupils-wont-wear-masks

And Teacher Tapp data from yesterday had 26% of teachers reporting that their schools were partially closed to students.

In the meantime, the testing positivity rate in 10-19 year olds is 17%, which means that this group is severely under-tested and lots of cases will be missed. The rate should be below 5%.

Yet the insistence continues that in any lockdown scenario, schools will remain open. Idiocy.

NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections
NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections
NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections
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6
Nellodee · 17/10/2020 13:58

You want me to keep my school open because your school has no cases? How does that work?

BunsyGirl · 17/10/2020 13:59

@CallmeAngelina

This is one of the responses that I got:

“Aren’t you lucky? Try living in a big city. Schools closing and bubble popping constantly.

If one shuts, they should all shut. How is this equal? Some kids getting full education, some constantly being disrupted.”

Nellodee · 17/10/2020 14:00

And was that a teacher, Bunsy?

3littlewords · 17/10/2020 14:00

@Barbie222

Expressing concerns is perfectly reasonable. My point is I don’t think it’s reasonable for schools to close and I’m bored of teachers’ unions calling for this.

Why are you bored?

I believe there are many people who have been calling for a circuit break - SAGE, Starmer among them. Are you bored of hearing them, too? Are you bored of hearing about the numbers and deaths in the pandemic? It's a very strange choice of word to use.

Didn't starmer want everything closed in a circuit break except schools?
BunsyGirl · 17/10/2020 14:01

@Nellodee are you actually a teacher?!!! When did I ever say that your school should remain open because mine doesn’t need to?!! I said that it should be taken on a “case by case” basis.

And the reverse to that is; why should mine close because yours has to?!!

BelleSausage · 17/10/2020 14:02

@TrustTheGeneGenie

What are you actually on about? No one is asking for another complete lockdown. We are mostly talking about either a circuit break with schools closed for a long holiday OR blended learning for older years.

We have closed all hospitality in some areas of the country but schools in those areas are still fully open with spiralling cases. If we want things to go back to normal any time soon we need to intervene.

BunsyGirl · 17/10/2020 14:03

@Nellodee yes, it was a teacher.

WouldBeGood · 17/10/2020 14:03

@lozengeoflove good to hear.

3littlewords · 17/10/2020 14:04

@CountDuckulasKetchup

Teachers unions aren't calling for a full on closure. One of them is suggesting an extra week added to half term to calm infections down.

Personally I'd be fine with that being unpaid if it was genuinely an extra week off and I wasn't expected to do any remote teaching. But I wouldn't be fine with a pay reduction if I was expected to teach remotely since this requires just as much if not more of a time commitment.

Sending only close contacts home is the problem. I posted earlier about a class where almost two thirds of the class were sent home. Me and the few remaining children had been in a poorly ventilated room with 20 potentially infectious students for an hour. Since they're taught in bands they'd been in classes all day with at least 3 or 4 other potentially infectious students. Surely those kids (and the teachers that taught them that day) should be isolating too?

Did any of the remaining pupils in school then go on to show symptoms and test positive or need to isolate because a family member tested positive because they could have taken it home asymptomatically?
Bollss · 17/10/2020 14:06

[quote BelleSausage]@TrustTheGeneGenie

What are you actually on about? No one is asking for another complete lockdown. We are mostly talking about either a circuit break with schools closed for a long holiday OR blended learning for older years.

We have closed all hospitality in some areas of the country but schools in those areas are still fully open with spiralling cases. If we want things to go back to normal any time soon we need to intervene.[/quote]
What are you on about?? I just pointed out opening schools is not what caused these issues, the virus causes these issues.....

So angry.

Nellodee · 17/10/2020 14:06

@lozengeoflove

I teach in a school of 1700 students plus 200 odd staff. We have had one confirmed case of COVID. Students who were in close contact self isolated. None tested positive.

School should not close IMO. The effects of school closures during first lockdown were enormous in a school like mine, which serves a deprived area. The education gap has widened hugely and even despite an excellent online provision, many of our students were not engaging.

We are still, seven weeks in, repairing the academic, social and emotional damage caused by the first lockdown.

Keep schools open I say.

@BunsyGirl I was replying to this post with my comment about why should my school stay open because yours has no cases. I didn't make it clear, sorry.

However, the post you quoted saying all schools should shut so it is fair. You attributed this to a teacher. Are you sure that they were actually a teacher?

dailygrowl · 17/10/2020 14:08

The circuit breaker should have been discussed with head teachers on Monday & Tuesday when the scientific reports were available, announced on Wednesday, and started today for 2 weeks. Pupils should all have been given online work or paper copies for those without adequate software & devices. Some schools are on half term for 2 weeks anyway, those with 1 week to go with have had teaching and social interaction already, and can look forward to reopening school.

Those who say circuit breakers are pointless because "it'll just start again" have not understood the physiology and pathology of how viruses work. Viruses are not a factory production line- above all they need a host to thrive. If hosts stay home, they can't infect someone else.

They spread exponentially- so if you are infected and you meet 5 different people every day, at the end of the week, you haven't made potentially 35 people infected, you have potentially made at least 25,000...because those people meet 5 different people every day too. 5 is a conservative estimate, taking into account some people meeting more and some fewer. Assuming we are lucky and many people are well-rested, no medical risk factors and robust and don't catch it, let's say only 1-3% of people pick it up, that is still 250-750 people who then go on to infect hundreds more without realising it. And testing will only pick up fewer than half of those potentially 750 cases, as there are not enough appointments or testing kits being allocated.

Most adults are still not being careful enough with precautions. Teachers and school pupils have been careful because of the rules and the campaigning of unions. Some professions like musicians, bus drivers and dancers are being extremely careful because it both affects their ability to work as well as having financial implications if they don't. But many adults doing work or activities where they often don't interact with others closely forget and aren't taking any precautions- I had 2 adults on the street approach me this week and try to come up very close to my face put something in my hand when neither they nor I had masks on.

That is how case numbers in areas like Liverpool, Manchester, Lancashire, London, Essex etc are going up. Local lockdowns alone are futile because you can't stop people from crossing borders- delivery staff, production workers, etc who are going in and out of these regions- often long distance to other cities.

Schools are better off with a 2 week circuit breaker that is planned rather than sudden random closures when one of your 250-750 infected manages to get a test that is positive. Saying "but my school and town have had nothing" is also meaningless because teachers are working with the burden of a sudden random school closure on them all the time which ultimately does affect the atmosphere of classes and the delivery of teaching in some way, even with the best efforts and diligence of teachers.

We get it that you have to go to work to pay your bills- we ALL have bills to pay. But being dead won't help pay your bills. There are safer ways to approach that. Rising case numbers unchecked will eventually lead to hospitals being too full and you could be the next person catching Covid 19 and needing a hospital bed and not being able to get one- because they're all occupied, even private beds. I don't think a lot of people realise the severity of this versus their ability to pay their Netflix subscription for the next 12 months. I'm speaking as a parent of school age offspring as well as being in a family of medical, teaching and self employed professionals. We know the implications from competing view points.

noblegiraffe · 17/10/2020 14:09

but you'd expect more than 2 pupils out of 800 to show symptoms if infection was rife in the school.

Would you? Given that 'show symptoms' means 'show one of the three adult symptoms that we know the majority of covid-positive children don't get'?

We know very little about the spread in schools because we aren't regularly, proactively testing. Where they are proactively testing children (there was a private school that did it, I think), they are uncovering large numbers of cases.

We do know from the random household testing done by the ONS that the infection rate in secondary schools is increasing alarmingly.

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Barbie222 · 17/10/2020 14:11

I just pointed out opening schools is not what caused these issues, the virus causes these issues.....

Yes, but you'd struggle to say that fully open schools aren't a factor in spreading the virus? Sage have consistently said that they make a difference of 0.5 to the R, they were saying this back in June and are saying it now, so I'm not personally surprised that we're seeing the numbers that we are.

Bollss · 17/10/2020 14:13

@Barbie222

I just pointed out opening schools is not what caused these issues, the virus causes these issues.....

Yes, but you'd struggle to say that fully open schools aren't a factor in spreading the virus? Sage have consistently said that they make a difference of 0.5 to the R, they were saying this back in June and are saying it now, so I'm not personally surprised that we're seeing the numbers that we are.

Yes, every interaction is a factor but schools are not solely responsible for job loss and poverty.

The thing is schools are important, and the death rate from this virus is tiny, and what's more important?

notevenat20 · 17/10/2020 14:13

It appears that parents of children at school are not getting covid much more than those without children at school so it may really be true that teachers are at very little additional risk.

If so, it's not really clear why we would shut schools rather than just send poorly children home.

Barbie222 · 17/10/2020 14:13

Schools are better off with a 2 week circuit breaker that is planned rather than sudden random closures when one of your 250-750 infected manages to get a test that is positive

This is it - we should all act together as we'll end up needing the 2 weeks at some point anyway and it won't make any difference to the R if we are all isolating at different points.

WouldBeGood · 17/10/2020 14:14

@dailygrowl that’s just not the case!

The virus is not spreading exponentially just now. It is also going to be there after any lockdown, as we have seen already. It’s endemic and must be dealt with on that basis.

It’s also deeply blinkered and short sighted to say it’s about worries about paying for Netflix. In the real world people are losing their jobs and homes and struggling to buy food.

The death rate of the virus is very low so the rusk needs to be balanced with other risks and benefits. And maybe look outside your own cosy little world and see how other people are struggling.

Nellodee · 17/10/2020 14:15

Notevenat20. We have had 6 positive cases in teachers in the past 2 weeks and have over 30 staff isolating.

Why do you keep ignoring the actual experience of teachers when they are telling you how virulent this virus is in their school?

starrynight19 · 17/10/2020 14:15

Those talking about not closing schools can we just clarify it’s a two week ‘circuit breaker’ not a full national lockdown for months.

Nellodee · 17/10/2020 14:16

@Wouldbegood, cases have doubled every 3 days in my school. I'd say that's quite a good example of exponential growth.

Bollss · 17/10/2020 14:16

@starrynight19

Those talking about not closing schools can we just clarify it’s a two week ‘circuit breaker’ not a full national lockdown for months.
The thing is that we have no certainty that things would re open after two weeks. All trust in the government has gone.
noblegiraffe · 17/10/2020 14:16

It appears that parents of children at school are not getting covid much more than those without children at school

Where did you get this data from? Jonathan Van-Tam said infections in the younger age groups were now obviously spreading to the older age groups.

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Nellodee · 17/10/2020 14:18

There was a point at which we had less cases than we have in my school in the entire country and were discussing how it was spreading exponentially. In fact... after I do some housework, I'm going to plot growth in my school in September against growth in the UK in February. I suspect they will actually line right on up.

Could · 17/10/2020 14:19

Still zero cases in our (Leicestershire) secondary. We've just broken up for half term so presumably it'll be two weeks of school missed if they are planning the circuit breaker for everyone else's half term.

Either way I think it's looking increasingly likely 🙁