NEU calls for two week closure for secondaries and colleges following leap in infections

[noblegiraffe]

The NEU has called for a two week closure of secondary schools and colleges following a more than 9-fold increase in the infection rate in secondary school children in a month.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-teachers-demand-2-week-school-closures-after-cases-jump

The infection rate in Y7-11 was 0.5% last week, according to the ONS survey of random households, but this nearly doubled to 0.93% in the latest set of figures. This rise cannot be ignored or passed off as relating to university students as has happened so far.

In other, entirely unrelated news, 61% of teachers report that if a student doesn't wear a mask in a school where they are mandated in communal areas 'nothing happens'.

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-61-staff-say-nothing-done-if-pupils-wont-wear-masks

And Teacher Tapp data from yesterday had 26% of teachers reporting that their schools were partially closed to students.

In the meantime, the testing positivity rate in 10-19 year olds is 17%, which means that this group is severely under-tested and lots of cases will be missed. The rate should be below 5%.

Yet the insistence continues that in any lockdown scenario, schools will remain open. Idiocy.

@PracticingPerson

I'm not a teacher, just a parent, and I support a break. I always wanted and still want part time school for secondary. Schools were obviously going to drive transmission and here we are.

I see the usual loud voices posting on every thread, attacking teachers.

for all teachers, I think schools have been absolutely shafted by covid denying numpties and I think you all deserve medals for continuing to think of the kids through all this.

This ^^

I'd support closing schools.

@PracticingPerson

I'm not a teacher, just a parent, and I support a break. I always wanted and still want part time school for secondary. Schools were obviously going to drive transmission and here we are.

I see the usual loud voices posting on every thread, attacking teachers.

for all teachers, I think schools have been absolutely shafted by covid denying numpties and I think you all deserve medals for continuing to think of the kids through all this.

It’s a shame people make digs like this. Part of the reason these threads either become an echo chamber or vast majority stay away. We’d get a more diverse thread if it wasn’t so clear that people want any difference of opinion to end.

I haven’t attacked teachers (if you mean other posters, be specific, which posts?) I don’t think many have. But I don’t agree with part time for various reasons. The NEU doesn’t either so maybe get involved with changing it to what you want another way.

I am fine with closing schools as necessary and completely in line with my own school guidance thankfully .

Anyway I like discussing with maths teachers think they bring a good perspective (even if we disagree on part time).

By closing I mean completely remote. What is happening in NI is not good. What happens if it needs to extend?

@notevenat20

SAGE seems to disagree with you and I know who I think is more qualified to comment. They say the two things to be done to have the biggest impact on the R number is switching to remote learning for universities and high schools.

That is what I am talking about. No one is asking for primary to go part time (even though that is exactly what is being done in many countries)

So, you’d rather have all students in all of the time, despite major job losses and deaths, than older students in part time? That is ridiculous. How infantilising for those older students.

@notevenat20

notevenat20, whilst it may not be clear that ALL schools increase the rate of infection, its bloody clear that a lot of them do.

I really meant on average. But you don’t hear of school years where 50 children have tested positive in the same week. This is what I would expect if it was extensively spread within schools and is exactly what is happening in university student halls right now.

There have been two recent studies about covid spread in schools. One from Sweden and one from Germany. If anyone is interested I will dig them out.

Unfortunately, not all parents are being honest about why their secondary aged children are not in school. On average in my large secondary, 4 to 5 children in every class are off and only some are down as an X. It’s very suspicious when more of those other children are down as an I and yet are off for 14 days.... It will be nigh on impossible to actually get reliable data until these loopholes are closed and also, young people aren’t discouraged from getting tested by the government.

I have no doubt part time would be better for your children, Marsha, but I think you are being quite blind to the fact that entire families are often working on a single mobile phone, or have parents who do not enforce any work at all from their children. Part time would mean every student received a base level of education. Totally remote learning would mean some children (a slim minority) would be fine, while many would receive none at all.

@Nellodee

I have no doubt part time would be better for your children, Marsha, but I think you are being quite blind to the fact that entire families are often working on a single mobile phone, or have parents who do not enforce any work at all from their children. Part time would mean every student received a base level of education. Totally remote learning would mean some children (a slim minority) would be fine, while many would receive none at all.

It’s not me determining policy it’s either the school or higher. We had information on closure and a practise day. All students home and to get in touch urgently if you can’t access it. So their approach is blind? I doubt it, it’s a very good school.

I have done part time for the yr10. Admittedly it was 25% but I far prefer what we had yesterday.

I also think part time isn’t as stable as people think it will be. There will still be disruption on top of only half access. What do your students do at home Nellodee?

And you are quite right, notevenat20, again. Viruses spread is not independent. It forms clusters where where there are links between people, like families, and workplaces, and social events, and SCHOOLS. If the rate in an institution is ten times the base rate outside the institution, then you have found a cluster. The mental Olympics you do to avoid seeing a cluster in schools in the U.K. because you have read a report about schools with low student numbers and low community infections in Germany are really something.

@PracticingPerson

I'm not a teacher, just a parent, and I support a break. I always wanted and still want part time school for secondary. Schools were obviously going to drive transmission and here we are.

I see the usual loud voices posting on every thread, attacking teachers.

for all teachers, I think schools have been absolutely shafted by covid denying numpties and I think you all deserve medals for continuing to think of the kids through all this.

@MarshaBradyo

This is actually a very mild and positive post, with which I also agree.

@MarshaBradyo

I don’t think you understand the part time model properly. We have been asked to create a four pronged approach.

1. two physical days in school where core content it covered for the students in one half of the year, taught by their class teacher.
2. three days a week out of school completing work based on the course content taught. Handed in to teacher (online or physically for marking) at the end of the week.
3. Vulnerable pupil support bubble created so that these pupils can be on site full time and provided with support/food/tech. All TAs part of this bubble on rotation.
4. Pretraining/testing/ providing online support systems for students. We run the iPad scheme. DH in charge has scourged the school this half term to pick up tech glitches, students without home tech or internet, computer and smart board problems.

As on next week, every pupil in school will have an iPad, will have been trained on the systems and will have had their internet access checked.

That’s our blended learning policy. Can you see anything we have missed? We’ve gone to great lengths to ensure no pupil is disadvantaged.

Here well apart from the bit about loud voices. The rest is fine.

I do think if no difference of opinion is wanted maybe the staff room board is better than general coronavirus one.

I haven’t been rude or personal just discussing and still there are digs. It’s a shame. I think we can have better conversations without them.

I am actually interested in this topic. It applies to me personally but also generally.

Initially I was hugely worried about in-school transmission.

But:

DH and I work in a secondary school. We have only had 1 positive case in our school.

At my DC’s secondary school there have been no positive cases. Not a single one.

Yes, some students and teachers have had to isolate with symptoms or because a family member has symptoms. But they are not spreading Covid around these two particular schools. Lessons are continuing as normal. One is a private school, one is a state school. Kids who are isolating can access lessons remotely. Both have made amazing adaptations and both are successfully working to continue educating the children in their care.

Remote learning with some kind of online teaching would work well for A level students.
But for the rest, getting work from kids was like blood from a stone. Some kids engaged really well, and for them, yes it was good, as I would call them and give one to one support.
The other problem is that for many students, they cannot really learn the new material without teacher help. With blended learning, in maths in particular, I would have the opportunity to go through the tricky concepts that they can’t pick up alone, then they could practise it alone. I can see that some subjects would work with students doing their own research projects, but maths definitely isn’t one of them.
Art, if supplies were delivered, would probably work better at home than at school, given the difficulties with sharing equipment. But I’m not an art teacher, so I’m probably totally wrong on that too!

And we don’t have huge numbers of kids randomly off school (in either school). Attendance is high for this time of year.

twitter.com/nicklinford/status/1317159530451640320?s=21

As someone that works in FE I find this worrying we are lucky in my region as we have not been hit hard yet. But I feel for those working in Preston.

There are posters on here who just come to slate the teachers or accuse them of not wanting to work.

To be honest, I think that adds very little to the argument. Not surprisingly, some of the teachers, who in fact have been at work all day teaching in difficult conditions, get exasperated.

It is an emotional subject but it is possible to express different points of view while being more respectful, IMHO

@Nellodee

Remote learning with some kind of online teaching would work well for A level students. But for the rest, getting work from kids was like blood from a stone. Some kids engaged really well, and for them, yes it was good, as I would call them and give one to one support. The other problem is that for many students, they cannot really learn the new material without teacher help. With blended learning, in maths in particular, I would have the opportunity to go through the tricky concepts that they can’t pick up alone, then they could practise it alone. I can see that some subjects would work with students doing their own research projects, but maths definitely isn’t one of them. Art, if supplies were delivered, would probably work better at home than at school, given the difficulties with sharing equipment. But I’m not an art teacher, so I’m probably totally wrong on that too!

I agree with you re Maths. This was one of my sticking points for last term. We had an online package which would click through a PowerPoint document. Complex maths which is hard to do that way. Not much of a push to actually do it. Many didn’t.

The difference this time for remote was a full school day with registration and video classes. You could see the teacher and they delivered a lesson. Long term you might get screen fatigue which isn’t good. They have built in some non screen time but still.

Two days a week slowed down this access so much. Very early days but full school day from home seemed to go down well.

Btw I’d love for there to be in class time for maths. Maybe that could be a consideration. Seeing actual work at a glance is important.

Where it gets tricky is that cutting provision in half is just half.

If you could limit exposure by mostly home but get usual number in for that that would be good.

@MrsSpenserGregson

Initially I was hugely worried about in-school transmission.

But:

DH and I work in a secondary school. We have only had 1 positive case in our school.

At my DC’s secondary school there have been no positive cases. Not a single one.

Yes, some students and teachers have had to isolate with symptoms or because a family member has symptoms. But they are not spreading Covid around these two particular schools. Lessons are continuing as normal. One is a private school, one is a state school. Kids who are isolating can access lessons remotely. Both have made amazing adaptations and both are successfully working to continue educating the children in their care.

I think there are many schools that are doing okay. I wish someone was identifying why some were and some weren’t. Is it the case that if you contact trace early enough, and stop it getting a hold, that you’re okay? Or is there something that some schools have done better that is keeping them safe? Is there a threshold of cases in the community at which schools stop being safe? And whatever the differences, we need to acknowledge that there are differences and allow different schools to take different approaches, rather than one size fits all. And then finally, we need to find a way of making a fairer playing fields between students who may have received very different levels of education in their exam year.

Marsha - you must see that your preferred model is massively unfair to the disadvantaged kids who don't have devices, good broadband and a quiet and warm place to work. They would get very little learning in a fully at home model.

Part time school is fairer for everyone at secondary level. Students get 40-50% teaching, some pre-recorded lessons and ppts potentially for semi-supported learning and then extra "homework" where they are fully independent (if possible).

Worst case scenario, the least advantaged/motivated/supported kids are still getting some education.

In your scenario, the gap between the most and least advantaged gets bigger than ever.

@notevenat20

You appear to be equating CV to say seasonal influenza.

You have reminded me of one of my bugbears. About 50,000 people died of covid between March and August this year. 394 people have died of seasonal flu since January 1 2020.

Yes presumably because a lot who would of or possibly even did die of flu, died of covid. Some years have seen 50k flu deaths.

It’s not my scenario Dangling it’s our schools. I just happen to prefer it so lucky in that regard.

I don’t know what happens next if access is needed but I do know they won’t be disregarded in any way whatsoever. They have been very on it wrt vulnerable etc students.

School’s (early).

I honestly think they won’t let anyone fall behind.

Opinion on this will be divided based on your own schools and where people live. It's grim here in Birmingham, yet my relatives in the SE and SW haven't had one case and don't have a clue how desperate it is here where at least 10,000 students are "off". Here is one example of the situation here - there has been a mass outbreak with 40 staff affected at this secondary in the region:

www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/willenhall-school-shuts-down-two-19119724

My year 10 son has now had four weeks not in school this term due to various cases in school. There are more than 100 healthy year 10s at home for the second time in a month.

My other son's inner city secondary has many cases too - several in his class have both parents testing positive.

Half the schools I work with have had multiple cases. One primary has closed completely as it has spread across staff.

It's unsustainable here. Schools are on their knees. Teaching IS disrupted.

But on the other hand, my son's home learning has been a mixed bag. A few weeks ago we had two days of no work (this is year 10!). This time it has been much better, but while we have new DfE guidelines regarding the provision robust blended learning, one core subject's work requires them to read the textbook. A textbook that resides at school. The teacher knows this yet all three lessons have required this, which means no lessons. My son won't raise this as he is concerned about the pressure school is under. I found the book on Amazon, but not all parents could afford this.

Now if all his year were at home I think schools could focus on home learning alone.

When he was in school for those few weeks it was lovely to see him with friends, enjoying sport, cadets etc, so I am torn on this.

However, all things considered, I would prefer blended learning/circuit breaker here. It's getting out of control.

@herecomesthsun

There are posters on here who just come to slate the teachers or accuse them of not wanting to work.

To be honest, I think that adds very little to the argument. Not surprisingly, some of the teachers, who in fact have been at work all day teaching in difficult conditions, get exasperated.

It is an emotional subject but it is possible to express different points of view while being more respectful, IMHO

This and do you know what, the posters always get really defensive. If the cap fits and all that, own it. Literally dawn until dusk, every day.

My DC’s secondary schools are working to a compulsory intervention timetable after half term. The Y11 children will have compulsory sessions after school. The issue with this, it will impact poorer family who cannot afford a private bus fare home. The children will be wrecked by the end of the year, the teachers too probably. The online learning model being prepped is also going to widen the attainment gap massively.

The only way that all children can be protected is true part time learning. Where every child is seeing a teacher for some of the week. I’m so worried that everyone will keep going with the ‘schools are fine’ line and we will be forced to close.