Maybe Manchester could be a pilot scheme.

[waltzingparrot]

As their mayor is so adamant they will not be put in lockdown, maybe we can test it out as the alternative option to regional lockdowns. One area that is properly supported financially and allowed to operate outside the tier system. It won't be perfect, it won't be a 100% containment, but maybe testing for essential travel outside the area.

If hospitals are overwhelmed it will either prove it's not an option or they will have come up with a way to handle any excess requirements.

If successful we can roll out across the country, but at least we will know.

It's the lack of proper support that is the problem. All this is about that.
People remember whole communities being sacrificed in the 80s without proper support for a Westminster experiment. It was dreadful. I remember it.

I agree. That's why it has to be properly financially supported otherwise it won't even prove anything

To clarify, Burnham is against a tier 3 lockdown without adequate financial support. Your suggestion of an area being properly supported financially is exactly what he, and other affected leaders, want.

Cross post - we're all in agreement!

He isn’t opposed to lockdown, he’s opposed to lockdown without financial support. Could you get by if, from tomorrow, your household gets 60% of its normal income?

Tbf when Liverpool and Manchester got different tiers, I suggested to DH they were running a controlled experience.
Two cities, both alike in level of contagion. I've obeying the rules, one not. Who will lose the most?

I think I've managed to confuse myself on my own thread.... I was thinking more that Manchester can trial going about life as normal but financially support those vulnerable that can't work. Obviously it could be a win for their economy and a win for mental health for some.

Quite frankly, we're in a lose-lose situation but this could prove to be little wins for some.

so that will only work if people DO adhere by the rules

And i would let you know that one of our suppliers is in the CZEK republic and they are paralysed by the virus at the moment . Too may staff ill or quarantining plus hospitals in their area overflowing .

this is not just the UK

Its getting worse

That might be ok if
They werent enforcing school attendance and work obviously
They will infect the rest of the uk.
Between the tourists coming back from abroad and the spread of infection through the uk.

Yes, it's a very difficult one to try and fix, and of course, anything is only going to work if people actually DO it.

I'm a realist. We are in the grip of a pandemic, every generation is suffering in one way or another and we probably are trying to fix the unfixable but I think it's worth trying and, trying different tactics in different areas to see what works in small ways.

No, I don't agree with conducting that kind of experiment at all. Letting the virus rip through the population would be disastrous, and while I'd like us to be able to prove that point to all the people who keep arguing for this approach, it would be too high a price to pay for the people of Manchester.

What I would like to see is a proper lockdown with appropriate financial support, as Burnham is pushing for.

But Andy Burnham isn't suggesting going about life as normal but with financial support for those that can't work , or anything remotely like that. His area has been under tier2 level restrictions, or worse, since March apart from 3 weeks in July. And he's not arguing GM shouldn't be in tier 2. Just that they shouldn't be in tier 3 (pubs closing) without financial support.

He is fighting to get people fairly paid if their employers need to close. As someone said above, could you manage tomorrow if your pay dropped to 60%?

@waltzingparrot

As their mayor is so adamant they will not be put in lockdown, maybe we can test it out as the alternative option to regional lockdowns. One area that is properly supported financially and allowed to operate outside the tier system. It won't be perfect, it won't be a 100% containment, but maybe testing for essential travel outside the area.

If hospitals are overwhelmed it will either prove it's not an option or they will have come up with a way to handle any excess requirements.

If successful we can roll out across the country, but at least we will know.

How does that work for people who live outside Manchester but work in it?

You can't test people twice daily and get an instant result. The technology isn't there yet.

You can't run an experiment like that without the possibility of rates going sky high and then affecting nearby areas, even if they are in restrictions.

The tory scum are claiming that Burnham is playing politics. He is trying to ensure that people and businesses are given adequate financial support.

I was suspicious of this scheme (scam) to bring local leaders into the decision making. The central government doesn't want to take responsibility for when things go wrong. So they will make decisions and enact laws, demand publicly that regions accept restrictions based on a set schema, and let us believe that the restrictions under each tier are insufficient without extra regionally decided restrictions. This allows them to share the blame around. They believe they will look good whilst all blame will fall on regional leaders for either not agreeing, or agreeing but falling short of bringing in the extra restrictions that would make a difference.

Its like the government have blood on their hands, so think let's smear it over everyone else.

Its already started with Tory fuckwits (backbenchers) pointing at Andy Burnham and claiming that he is risking lives.

Its the government that is playing politics.

Also, Manchester and the North suffered financially from lockdown at a time when they had low cases. When London locked down so did they. No wonder they are now feeling as though they are being disadvantaged.