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Original poster

DSD and DSS have to self isolate. Can they come to us?

65 replies

Fressia123 · 15/10/2020 10:54

Just got notified that my SDDs bubble at schook has to self isolate, I would have thought DSS has to self isolate too? I've heard contradictory information. Her DM is asking if she can stay with us some of the days. Two of those days the nanny/babysitter will be here but I think it defeats the whole self isolation purpose.

OP posts:
yellowstoneranch · 16/10/2020 14:04

We are in the same boat with one teen SI but the other 3 not (one SC goes to same school w SI teen, other 2 live was us full time as they are nine) but both SC are coming here tonight as per normal as mum has insisted.

We are just going to keep SI teen as separate as possible and have use of their own toilet shower etc and the rest of us share the other - hope it's a warm week as will keep kitchen back door open too during day while they do their schoolwork!

MRex · 16/10/2020 14:19

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8901/ - it depends if the child is considered part of both households, but it does come under parental decision.

I wouldn't have the nanny there though, that's most unfair, just pay her for one week off.

DumplingsAndStew · 16/10/2020 14:41

www.teeslaw.com/insights/coronavirus-child-arrangements-order/

Additionally, it remains Government advice that, if someone in your household or support bubble presents symptoms of Coronavirus or has been contacted by track and trace, the entire household must self-isolate for 14 days. If this becomes necessary, the importance of regular video chats or phone calls cannot be stressed enough, to ensure both co-parents maintain contact with the child. After the expiry of the self-isolation period, contact can continue and your children can move between households.

I know that refers to being contacted and ask to isolate by T&T, but assume that is comparable to having a school 'bubble' burst.

Original poster
Fressia123 · 16/10/2020 15:01

Yes, the nanny isn't coming for that period (what would be the second week of isolation).

@DumplingsAndStew I would say the same thing but tell that to the other side!

I understand it's confusing and might seem "unfair" but if one child is asked to self isolate it's to reduce risk. By going to a second house they're putting the second house at risk. I think at least we've lowered the risk by having the second week of isolation rather than the first.

OP posts:
Char2015 · 16/10/2020 15:12

@Fressia123

After a massive fight (we were deemed unreasonable!) My stepchildren are coming for the second half of the self isolation period. I don't necessarily agree but at least seems "fairer".
What? It's situations like this that are contributing to the ongoing spread. Self-isolate means self-isolate. They should not be going from one house to another to self-isolate. Rules are rules and are there for a reason.
Lockdownfatigue · 16/10/2020 15:22

It’s within the rules. I have checked with the local authority in a similar situation and children self isolating are considered part of both households and can move between the two.

Lockdownfatigue · 16/10/2020 15:22

However, neither household should have anyone else over to the house in that case

Char2015 · 16/10/2020 15:32

@Lockdownfatigue

It’s within the rules. I have checked with the local authority in a similar situation and children self isolating are considered part of both households and can move between the two.
That is not correct. The LA is giving incorrect information. The Government states that if you are a close contact you must not leave your home. You isolate in one place. That is reckless of the LA to be giving such information.
Original poster
Fressia123 · 16/10/2020 16:19

I'm with you there. Even IF within guidelines/rules it defeats common sense.

But how can you enforce it in this case without having a massive fight/fallout?

OP posts:
yellowstoneranch · 16/10/2020 22:23

Same here, it wasn't worth the fight although SI teen would have been upset to miss a week at our home and is very happy I've picked them both up. Our house is self-employee too so if we have to SI it's going to be even more rubbish, only just dusted ourselves off from March lockdown

Lockdownfatigue · 17/10/2020 22:12

The Government states that if you are a close contact you must not leave your home

But children of separated parents have two homes? And travelling in a private car between those homes is fine. That absolutely is correct. Confirmed by two LA departments And public health. Can’t say why I had to check so thoroughly as it’s confidential and outing.

Saggyoldsofa · 17/10/2020 23:12

This is really not within the rules despite what the LA may have misinformed the OP above. The regs that came into force for England at the end of september have no exception for separated families. The laws on e.g. rule of six and mixing households are in different regs. Those are the ones that permit exceptions for separated households. The exceptions do not apply to the self isolation regs which is what we are talking about here.

The child who is not self isolating is fine to come unless also told to self isolate.

Saggyoldsofa · 17/10/2020 23:18

Sorry that was not clear.
Imagine you are in a tier 2 or 3 area. No one has symptoms and no-one is required to self isolate. Children can travel between homes because although mixing is generally prohibited there is an exception for separated families. This will be the context for the LA's advice above.

Scenario 2: in any area regardless of tier someone is required by PHE to self isolate because they are a close contact but has no symptoms. Where that person is a child then there is no specific exemption allowing them to go to the other parent's house. They should not go unless it is impracticable to stay put or for one of the other, very specific exceptions set out in the regs.

Original poster
Fressia123 · 18/10/2020 09:51

Thanks @Saggyoldsofa that's how I understand it. I also think to make it properly work but would be best to keep households completely separate, but that's more an opinion than anything else.

OP posts:
Saggyoldsofa · 18/10/2020 10:09

@Lockdownfatigue honestly it is not. You have been misinformed. Regular contact with no.mention of anyone self-isolating, yes that is the case. If the child in question is self-isolating, then technically visiting the other parent unless for an exceptional reason as defined in regs, then this will be technically unlawful. Whether it would be enforced or upheld in court is another matter.

Saggyoldsofa · 18/10/2020 10:09

Too many technicallies. But you know what I mean!

Heartofglass12345 · 18/10/2020 13:46

It's meant to be two weeks from wherever you are at the time. My sons class is isolating at the moment, and one of the other mums posted pictures of them our for a walk with her family yesterday (grandparents and auntie and cousins) saying 'oh that was a long 14 days'.... except the 14 days isn't up until Wednesday..... Confused

chocolatesaltyballs22 · 18/10/2020 13:51

No, absolutely not. My stepson is having to isolate due to a case at school. He's staying at his mum's for the whole 2 week period.

Augustbreeze · 18/10/2020 18:33

To those all saying children must stay with one parent when isolating, so you have any links to evidence for this view?

I think it needs urgent clarification.

Also re the resale link posted uphread: the article there states that the whole household has to isolate if a member is contacted by T&T. That's incorrect, see this from the NHS website:

If you're told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace or the NHS COVID-19 app:....

• people you live with do not need to self-isolate if you do not have symptoms
• people in your support bubble do not need to self-isolate if you do not have symptoms

Augustbreeze · 18/10/2020 18:34

Sorry that should have read the teeslaw link upthread

ukgift2016 · 18/10/2020 18:53

This is has just happened to me. I work full time as does my DD father.

I am hoping on the second week of self isolation he will still have her at his house. I have to work. It's a total joke.

coldlocation · 18/10/2020 19:06

I posted about kids moving between separated parents houses... Please see my thread. With links to legal advice availble on the Web about kids with two homes.

I'm amicably separated so our contact arrangements are not court ordered but my kids... After being exposed but prior to being informed of the cases had already been at both houses. I couldn't had a huge row with me exH and denied him access to the kids but in the end they went (in his car door to door) for the weekend.

Super brilliant response on my thread from a lawyer here...

"I'm a family lawyer, and the advice we have been giving based on the interpretation of the legislation available (because it's not definitive) is that if a household needs to self isolate, and the parents want to maintain the contact arrangements, both parents' households must self isolate for the complete period required, but if only the child needs to self isolate, they can do so in either/both homes - in both circumstances, provided that they don't need to use public transport to travel between the 2 homes.
This advice is on the basis that the government have always said contact arrangements are an exception to the general rule because the child or children are part of both households".

ukgift2016 · 18/10/2020 19:58

@coldlocation thanks for those links/information. Very helpful to know.

YardleyX · 18/10/2020 20:26

Coldlocation is correct.

Child is part of both households and can move between them if necessary.

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