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Difference between law and guidance?

19 replies

Redissuereader · 14/10/2020 14:04

Does anyone know what the difference is between what is against the law and what is against guidance?

If you live in tier 2 does that mean that everything they say you shouldn't do is actually against the law or just that you should follow what they say to be a responsible member of society?

OP posts:
knittingaddict · 14/10/2020 14:19

I'm sure i read on the BBC? that it was all law now rather than guidelines, but I need to check that.

FourTeaFallOut · 14/10/2020 14:24

No. Their are guidelines that those in tier 2 should restrict their movements - but this is only a guideline and now law.

purpleme12 · 14/10/2020 14:24

Interested too

purpleme12 · 14/10/2020 14:26

@FourTeaFallOut

No. Their are guidelines that those in tier 2 should restrict their movements - but this is only a guideline and now law.
So for example if in tier 2 and you socialise indoor with 2 people you wouldn't be breaking the law?
FourTeaFallOut · 14/10/2020 14:28

No. Like, I am in tier 2 and I can technically still go on holiday but ideally they'd like us to stay put. If I move in to a tier one area I am still bound by the mixing restrictions of tier two.

Captainrachy · 14/10/2020 14:29

Also wondering this as supposed to travel from NI (live in a area with low rate of infection) to London this weekend. New restrictions have been brought in but the lines for travel read “in guidance, no unnecessary travel will be advised”. It is in a separate section to the “regulations” which makes me think it’s not illegal, rather not advised.

knittingaddict · 14/10/2020 14:29

I'm sorry I can't find the article I read, although I'm sure that's what they said on it. However they may have got it wrong at the time and corrected it since.

It should be easier than this to find out what is law and what isn't, although I suppose blurred lines help the government.

LangClegsInSpace · 14/10/2020 16:52

Here's the legislation:

Medium
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1103/contents/made

High
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1104/contents/made

Very high
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1105/contents/made

I haven't read them through yet but basically if it's not in there it's guidance not law. The explanatory memorandum links are somewhat more readable than the actual regs.

This is a useful page for keeping track of new laws, secondary legislation is the one to watch -
www.legislation.gov.uk/coronavirus

Letsgetgoing123 · 14/10/2020 19:37

It makes me wonder what’s the point of giving “guidance” when people just pick through it working out what they can still get away with.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just feels a waste of time.

CrappleUmble · 14/10/2020 19:47

If it isn't in the legislation, you don't have to do it and aren't breaking any laws if you don't. You only have to ensure your actions comply with the laws for your area, which are linked to a couple of posts above. It's up to you whether you also want to comply with the guidance: this is the point at which you do your own risk assessment.

LangClegsInSpace · 14/10/2020 20:41

@Letsgetgoing123

It makes me wonder what’s the point of giving “guidance” when people just pick through it working out what they can still get away with.

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but just feels a waste of time.

Because the legislation is fairly impenetrable for most people - good guidance puts the law into straightforward language.

Because there is an interplay between the regs and the guidance. For example in this legislation, organisers of events are required to take into account 'any guidance issued by the government which is relevant to the gathering' as part of their risk assessment and mitigation. There isn't a legal requirement to follow it to the letter but if they end up in court they'll be required to show they have taken it into account (i.e. give a good reason why they didn't follow it).

Because most people do actually want an end to this shitshow and are crying out for decent, evidence-based guidance to help them do their bit, over and above what the law says.

Because we are messy human beings with complicated lives and not every situation we find ourselves in can be legislated for. Good guidance can help us make decisions in difficult circumstances that the law has not yet considered.

The question should not be, 'what’s the point of giving “guidance”?', it should be, 'Is the guidance good enough?' - is it straightforward and accessible? Is it detailed enough? Is it evidence based and does it adequately explain why the recommendations are believed to help? Does it give alternative recommendations if you are unable to follow best practice? Does it clearly state its aim and is it honest about the extent of the law?

For people in messy, often harrowing, human situations where they have to make complex personal risk assessments, not getting prosecuted is right up there with not getting covid.

There will always be pisstakers looking for loopholes but this is not about them. They're best ignored - most of them are doing it for attention.

Nevertheless, we all have a right to know exactly what the law says because we are all legally required to comply. Even the pisstakers.

Letsgetgoing123 · 14/10/2020 20:52

@LangClegsInSpace

You make some good points and have explained it well.

“Because most people do actually want an end to this shitshow and are crying out for decent, evidence-based guidance to help them do their bit, over and above what the law says.”

I really hope you’re right, I mean, I believe that everyone wants it to end, but I’m starting to worry that there’s a lot of not so decent people out there. Perhaps I need more faith in humanity. Maybe I’ve been watching too much news...

“Because we are messy human beings with complicated lives and not every situation we find ourselves in can be legislated for. Good guidance can help us make decisions in difficult circumstances that the law has not yet considered.”

Yes this is true, and I do sympathise with this.

LangClegsInSpace · 14/10/2020 20:54

As a general rule, if the gov.uk guidance says you 'must' do something then it's law. If they say you 'should' do something then it's guidance. This is not an infallible method of working out which is which, they sometimes make mistakes.

CrappleUmble · 14/10/2020 20:55

When guidance works as it's meant to do, it clarifies the law and is more accessible than statute. The two are complementary. Unfortunately, that hasn't really been how it's worked during the coronavirus, and the effect has been compounded by poorly drafted legislation, sometimes published mere minutes before becoming law, with no prior parliamentary scrutiny.

LangClegsInSpace · 14/10/2020 21:07

I do think most people are decent and want this to end. The big dispute is how we do this with the least harm and how we balance priorities.

Letsgetgoing123 · 14/10/2020 21:12

I hope so, but then the scenes in Liverpool last night made me quite despondent, especially as I work in nhs not far away...

LilyPond2 · 14/10/2020 21:23

The key restrictions which apply to individuals in Tier 2 as a matter of law are the restrictions on gatherings. Basically, indoor gatherings are prohibited unless an exemption applies (eg all members of the same household). For outdoor gatherings you are not allowed more than six (again unless an exemption applies). Breaching the rules on gatherings without a reasonable excuse is a criminal offence.

Redissuereader · 14/10/2020 21:41

[quote LangClegsInSpace]Here's the legislation:

Medium
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1103/contents/made

High
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1104/contents/made

Very high
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1105/contents/made

I haven't read them through yet but basically if it's not in there it's guidance not law. The explanatory memorandum links are somewhat more readable than the actual regs.

This is a useful page for keeping track of new laws, secondary legislation is the one to watch -
www.legislation.gov.uk/coronavirus[/quote]
This was so useful! Thank you!

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