Should more emphasis be put on ensuring people isolate?

[Fredocorleone]

I was reading that apparently the biggest issue is the fact that people aren't isolating properly for 14 days. I'm sure I read a stat that said only 18% of people were (although I can't remember the source).

Perhaps the alternative is to put the support measures in place so that those isolating are fully compensated, rather than this half-baked notion of expecting people to go without pay?

For example, if you're isolated on SSP, you take a direct financial hit or you are self-employed like me and my husband, we get absolutely zero. Therefore, it's not really a surprise that people are putting food on the table and a roof over their heads above following the isolation rules.

I'm lucky to work from home, so if I had to isolate I could continue working. However, I am one of the people excluded from any financial support because I started my sole trader business in May last year. I've already lost a lot of income and I'm not entitled to any help whatsoever.

My husband works outdoors and is self-employed. He was asked by the ONS to take a research test and immediately said no, because in the unlikely scenario that it was positive, we literally wouldn't be able to pay our bills as my income dropped by 90% and he couldn't afford to miss out on two weeks income as well.

Therefore perhaps a practical solution would be to say that everyone can go out to work but if you have symptoms, then we'll pay you to isolate. Would that work out cheaper in the long run?

Certainly here in Suffolk it would be better because our rates are low yet our businesses are going under because of the rules. It would allow them to regain their business whilst people would be enticed to isolate properly because they didn't have the fear of not being able to pay their bills.

Yes it would be cheaper in the long run
But no they won't do that because it's not supporting a business, just pesky people

Yes. Apparently compliance is much higher in countries that are doing this.

So if it’s so glaringly obvious Why the hell are we doing something different yet again?

Because we have a Tory government who don’t care about us commoners

@SkyeIsPink

Because we have a Tory government who don’t care about us commoners

The irony is that it would save more businesses and be much cheaper!

I agree with you OP. My DD finished a 14 day isolation period yesterday after the school bubble burst. It was obviously very difficult and it was particularly hard to see other parents in the class posting their breaches of the isolation on social media... families up to all sorts inside and outside when their child was not supposed to leave the house.

I was struck by the fact we were not contacted by track and trace at all. A letter from school with nothing further from LA or any FAQs was considered sufficient for something that has such a significant impact. I don't think it helped that we weren't contacted by anyone in a public health capacity.

@Fredocorleone

So if it’s so glaringly obvious Why the hell are we doing something different yet again?

Because people go on about dictatorships and civil liberties.

Compliance is the problem in this country. Look at the awful scenes in Liverpool last night. As a nation too many people are selfish. They sadly need to bring in the 'covid marshalls' and start issuing on the spot fines for those who seemingly couldn't care less.

I'm not sure I agree @GetOffYourHighHorse that compliance is the biggest problem. Back in early lockdown, they were shocked by the fact that everyone DID comply. Its why they had to literally tell sectors such as construction to go back to work because everyone stayed home.

I think for a lot of people they want to comply but feel that if they do, they are significantly financially disadvantaged therefore they weigh up the risks and decide that it's a risk worth taking.

I know as a family, we've said that unless my husband has symptoms then he would have to continue working because we simply cannot afford to lose two weeks income. He works outside alone, and when we've had these conversations with friends, they've said similar.

I think that people will only isolate if they know that they aren't going to be financially impacted. Particularly if they haven't even got symptoms, they've just been told to isolate by an app.

'Back in early lockdown, they were shocked by the fact that everyone DID comply'

Oh yes early on in March people did comply and of course there's a financial impact on isolating but I mean the social distancig thing that is needed. Crowds of people partying in Liverpool which has the highest rate and their ICUs are filling up. Local leaders in high risk areas need to take some responsibility and try to get people complying rather than attacking Johnson.

I work for track and trace system for PHE and that's exactly what I do - call people to check they are self isolating and to ensure they are as well as can be expected.

If you're on a zero hours contract or self-employed, and are one of the many people in the country with no savings (or if you burned through the ones you had during the last lockdown), then being told you can't work for 2 weeks can make an enormous difference to your finances, and get you to a point where you can't pay your bills and might lose your home. I think it is now possible to get a payment in those circumstances whilst self-isolating, but it hasn't been very well promoted. Until it is, I can totally see why many don't comply.

call people to check they are self isolating and to ensure they are as well as can be expected
How do you know that they are at home when you call?

It’s all very well going on about compliance @GetOffYourHighHorse but it was made very clear by behavioural scientists in March that people would not comply indefinitely with restrictions so they have to be targeted at when they’re most needed.

That advice is even more true now- we are 6 months into this with no end in sight and no strategy that I can see. People who have already given up their jobs and businesses will not go on complying with rules when they are at no or very low risk themselves.

I think we are at the point that only people who "want" to comply will comply. I am sure there are plenty of people with one of the classic 3 symptoms who are not getting a test. I think you might find that the people who are actually getting a test in the first place are the more compliant ones. If their friends are then "track and traced" then again, those could either be compliant people who will self isolate (or the type who just will no longer pick up the phone to an unknown number in case it is track and traced). There are plenty of people going out and not giving their details in restaurants etc. so they are not track and traced. In the first wave, people were scared and got through it because they thought it would make a difference and be over soon. Now many people have Covid fatigue and "compliance" has gone down drastically. I think people who are still getting tests for symptoms, signing up to the app and leaving their details in hospitality venues etc are the compliant ones so the last thing you want to do is then "penalise" these more compliant people further by e.g. fines for not self isolating for the full amount of time. Because if you do, even fewer people will get tests or sign up to the app etc. So I believe in trying to get compliance from the population in a soft way - everyone who can should do their own very best (depending on their individual circumstances). Working from home etc. I refuse to judge someone else who does not self isolate because they simply cannot afford not to.

I personally know of a few people who have children who are meant to be isolating because of a case in their bubble but have no choice but to drag them along on bus rides to get their sibling to school. Some people won't be able to find childcare for isolating children every morning and hometime for 14 days. It's a difficult situation for alot of parents. It will inevitably happen to me and I have no idea how I would get my other child to school tbh

@StarCat2020

call people to check they are self isolating and to ensure they are as well as can be expected How do you know that they are at home when you call?

Well it's quite obvious if they aren't , background noise, etc.

@hocuspocusbitch

no its not obvious. I took two business calls in the summer whilst on holiday. Both callers seemed oblivious until I pointed out that I couldnt hear them that I was standing on a bridge within a few feet of a gushing waterfall.
I could be in a park, sat in a car, or not in the house I should be in

Funny you should say Suffolk. A friend of mine there came down with all the symptoms including a fever of 40 (which surely is concerning, Covid or not) has never been avoiding anything so she’s been all over the place and easily could have picked it up. She actively avoided getting a test because she is unwilling to be ‘stuck in’ for two weeks, unable to use childcare for her 3 year old son when she will ‘probably feel fine in a few days ’ so isn’t willing to be stuck in a house with a small child for two weeks. So child was shipped off to nursery every day since, And she herself went to work the following day, still feeling quite unwell , but masking her coughing etc as best she could, because she was worried if she said she was sick, they might require her to get a test.

This person is well educated, and someone I loved and respected for many years of friendship.

Expect to get flamed for saying this but I’m not sure our friendship will ever be the same after that conversation. Maybe that makes me petty or a sheeple. I just felt so uncomfortable that she felt this was totally reasonable response to me suggesting she better get tested.

So now she’s gone into an office of forty. Kid is back in a nursery of 60 along with staff. Husband is a plumber so in and out of multiple houses. That’s a LOT of Other families shes risked because she doesn’t fancy being stuck in the house with her kid for a fortnight.

she doesn’t fancy being stuck in the house with her kid for a fortnight
I wish I had only been stuck in that long.

I lost everything but my cat this year (just before Covid) and have barely left the house since..

Worst thing is that my beloved cat is old and she won't always be here.

If this shit is still going on when she leaves me then I think I will have to go too.

I am not depressed or anything, just have no chance of getting my life back and can't spend more than another 6-9 months alone

I agree. The link between more deprived areas and the new surge is glaringly obvious. Places where you can't wfh and are zero hours without a savings safety net.

I don't think in the main it's people who can't be arsed, I think it's can't afford.

However I think people struggle to admit this even to themselves so have latched on to the idea its not important they self isolate or onto conspiracy bollocks rather than face the uncomfortable fact they are putting their own and other people's health at risk. This has made it socially acceptable to break the rules.

The government needs to facilitate self isolation by funding it. They know this but don't want to. Instead they fill the papers with pictures of kids on the piss and make out this is the problem. It's the Covid version of the ongoing assault on 'feckless and workshy' whilst conveniently ignoring that most children in poverty are in working households.

Rant over (for now).

"I was reading that apparently the biggest issue is the fact that people aren't isolating properly for 14 days."

Ds is a potential contact for someone who had symptoms 7 days ago and still no test result so if that person is positive ds will have missed most of the self isolating period.

I think this is a huge problem.

I know of numerous people who have ignored the need to isolate or not done it properly.

These include people going out and about while waiting for tests, people going out and about knowing a household member has the virus and people going out and about when they have been in close contact with a positive case.

None of these relate to people with financial issues and needing to work. They are people too selfish to change their social plans. They include GP taking GC on a mini break while their mum was waiting for a test, which ended up being positive. Also people who were supposed to be isolating after close contact but then hosting family coming over from abroad.

I also know a few who didn’t quarantine properly after going abroad.

My best guess is that it is the minority who do it properly....but that is my opinion only.