Lockdown measures can't work while schools are open?

[ActivtySheet]

Not because this thing is particularly rife in schools but because no one will take restrictions seriously while they have to send their children to school.

We're fortunate to be (for the moment) in a low risk area and I don't know details from other areas but here, cases in schools have been isolated incidents and well contained. There doesn't seem to have been onward transmission school.

However, people very much are taking the view, what's the point of SD etc when they're going to school?

I've been guilty myself of thinking this way. Can't socialise outside my household unless it's in a workplace or educational setting. I feel rather safe from contracting the virus at work though, my employer has put lots of things in place. My children's schools are open as usual. I know it's less risk overall to follow the rules but being in a high risk area where almost every school has had cases, it seems rather inevitable we will catch it from the children. It's not much of an incentive to follow the measures in place.

Please, please, please tell me you are not advocating shutting schools again.

Yep-you’re absolutely right. It won’t be until they’ve closed down all the other things they are talking about and realise rates are still rising alarmingly, that they’ll have to see that the problems are the huge amount of transmission that takes places through schools.

Schools may not close again for a large chunk of time, but I fully expect changes. Sadly the government don’t want to spend money on keeping them open and shouting loudly about schools being an ‘absolute priority’ means absolutely nothing if you're simply not prepared to stump up any cash.

Schools and university open = rates high
Regardless of anything else open/closed
The end

I don't think the biggest risk is transmission in schools actually. I think the risk is that people don't take the restrictions seriously because schools are open.

That's what needs to change.

It's quite difficult to get teenagers to refrain from socialising with people they spend hours with on weekdays. Which might be in groups of 6, but it couid be quite different people, if they are on options with full specialist subject teaching. And they are approaching adult disease patterns.

So as the summer ends and it all moves indoors, it gets quite a bit riskier.

So a clear rule about not socialising in other people's households is needed, with firm message that you participate in school because education matters and you can get the benefits of contact with friends there. But you don't add to it by extending the hours of contact.

@Letseatgrandma

Yep-you’re absolutely right. It won’t be until they’ve closed down all the other things they are talking about and realise rates are still rising alarmingly, that they’ll have to see that the problems are the huge amount of transmission that takes places through schools.

Schools may not close again for a large chunk of time, but I fully expect changes. Sadly the government don’t want to spend money on keeping them open and shouting loudly about schools being an ‘absolute priority’ means absolutely nothing if you're simply not prepared to stump up any cash.

Yes exactly. The government need to improve mitigation in schools as a matter of urgency. They are again penny pinching with this that will cost then ££££ further down the line. If they don't act soon schools will end up closing. It is like watching a car crash in slow motion

• things

We can't shut the schools again - we really can't.
Children need an education and parents need to work.

I take the opposite view to be honest I'm more likely to stick to the rules (not that I go out my way to break them anyway) to ensure that schools stay open. The less interactions there are out of school the less risk of transmission in school is my theory

@3littlewords

I take the opposite view to be honest I'm more likely to stick to the rules (not that I go out my way to break them anyway) to ensure that schools stay open. The less interactions there are out of school the less risk of transmission in school is my theory

This is a sensible view but a minority one I think. Most people will carry on until they see palpable economic and social ramifications: closures of shops and restaurants around them, closures of schools and educational settings. It seems like economic suffering is a prerequisite.

I agree that schools need to stay open. Children need a proper education.
However, this doesn't change change the simple fact that lockdowns won't work if they stay open.
I think universities need to be remote learning only (depending on the course).

I think ultimately we need to make peace with the rate of infections being higher if it means schools are open. As long as it’s not exponential and it levels off (evidence of that happening in high areas in the north) in order for it to be sustainable we need to accept schools being open means community levels will remain higher and deal with that. We can’t sacrifice children’s education long term.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting schools should close but that there needs to be a shift change in public attitudes if the other control measures are to have a chance of working while schools or open.

I think e.g avoiding mixing households can make a difference but there are too many people dismissing it as pointless because DC are mixing at school, when actually they mix in a completely different,less intense, way in school.

@ActivtySheet

To be clear, I'm not suggesting schools should close but that there needs to be a shift change in public attitudes if the other control measures are to have a chance of working while schools or open.

I think e.g avoiding mixing households can make a difference but there are too many people dismissing it as pointless because DC are mixing at school, when actually they mix in a completely different,less intense, way in school.

I agree with this.

But not every adult, not even every parent, put schools as a priority.

I wouldn't say taking restrictions seriously puts schools as a priority, but simply gives the restrictions a chance of keeping the virus under (some) control.

However, this doesn't change change the simple fact that lockdowns won't work if they stay open.

Agree.
Neither does it change that fact that if they stay open, some students and some teachers will become seriously ill and die.

I’m not guilty of thinking this way. The children are priority and I send them to school. However I vastly minimise my own socialisation, only see friends and family outdoors socially distanced, and stick to rule of six. It’s only right. I have also cancelled my cleaning service to minimise unnecessary indoor interaction.

It’s certainly true of any particular lockdown, I cannot see shutting schools but keeping other things open particularly works either because families and you people simply meet elsewhere, this would seem to be the experience in Mexico, Brazil and India which had there schools shut all through March to October and still saw very high numbers of cases.

Basically partial lockdown doesn’t work and full long term lockdown is too expensive so it’s erm very difficult to know what to do really!

@Seriouslymole

Please, please, please tell me you are not advocating shutting schools again.

Parents will gather firemans axes and open the school doors ourselves. 😂

@PicsInRed - I'll be right there with you.

I'm taking it seriously and my DS is in school, and my younger DC in nursery. I've not set foot in anyone else's house other than my parents and (once) sister, when we were able to have up to four extended households (Wales).

I am angry and fatigued by the whole thing, and am completely against the rules stopping people seeing family. But I don't think we might as well mix with all and sundry just because schools are open.

The parents are still socialising pubs/coffee places.

How do you expect to change that social attitude OP?

I said I'm guilty of having that attitude myself but despite believing not meeting up with a single other household will make any difference when my child is in a room for 6 hours with 30 other households... I haven't broken a single coronavirus rule, law, guideline or whatever. Apart from work and school, most of our out of the house time has been in outdoor spaces, we're having takeaway treats and special meals at home instead of takeaways etc.

When we go to work there's enough measures in place to mean we are unlikely to contract the virus. If we get it, it's coming from the schools.

That is meant to be instead of restaurants.