If Facemasks work why is the infection rate rising so rapidly?

[Bbq1]

Just that really. Facemasks have been mandatory for a couple of months now and the majority of us are wearing them. However, if they are so effective why haven't they cut the infection rate massively? Instead, we're now expericing a second wave. Even if the amount of people currently wearing Facemasks was halved, you would still expect some reduction in infection, not an increase. Surely then, this all points to the fact that Facemasks just don't work?

Everywhere I go, except supermarkets and just recently when ordering in pubs, people are not wearing masks and not social distancing.
I try very hard to social distance but people just don't seem to understand to stay 2m away if they want to talk to someone. I back off and they look surprised, sometimes even offended.

[quote Oaktree55]@Gwenhwyfar out of interest what is mask policy in schools there pls?[/quote]
I'm not sure sorry as I don't have children.
I have heard of teachers' unions complaining about the teachers' vocal chords because they have to shout to be heard over the masks.
Children under 12 here don't have to wear masks at all, which is a disaster as they tend not to socially distance either.

"I don't go anywhere apart from work where we are all quite a long way apart and there are no customers coming in and out. "

Is there air conditioning at your work? Could you be touching surfaces touched by others and then your face? Do you wear a mask when not at your personal work area at work? (The mask does at least stop you touching a door handle and then immediately your mouth or nose).

Because of people like my neighbours who are still having large numbers of visitors. Because of people who are refusing to wear masks (I was the only customer wearing a mask in our local Co op yesterday). Because of people returning from abroad and not quarantining
Because people are fed up with it now. There’s lots of reasons unfortunately.

@Oaktree55

1. How do you know what rates would be like without masks? Could be way worse

1. Hopefully masks lowering viral dose leads to less severe infection
2. Nobody said they’re a silver bullet. They’re a tool to help along with others like distancing.
3. A vaccine will only be another tool not a silver bullet
4. There is no magic answer yet
5. Stop looking for magic

Exactly this.

It would be interesting to compare areas/ countries with high compliance to areas/ countries with mask rules but 50% of people deciding they are exempt (for genuine reasons in anout 5% of those cases and spurious reasons or no reason at all for the rest)...

It seems likely that in areas of high compliance people are more community minded and less selfish and follow the other precautions more reliably too. Culture pkays a big role as does how well and clearly precautions have been explained and how trustworthy and sensible political and policy leaders are regarded as being.

That said I absolutely agree, the other thing is some people think masks are magic shields of immunity/ licence to ignore the other precautions, and often they are the same people not wearing them properly.

@Gwenhwyfar have you been to Belgium during this covid times and lived and worked there extensively. On paper you can say UK has got high rates but in London I can see that most people dont know how to wear a mask properly. All inhibitions go out of the window with drinking in pubs and so on and so forth. The main difference now during this second wave is that people take extra precautions near care homes. In the same way in Belgium they might say they have high mask wearing rates but who knows if they are wearing it correctly. Plus Belgium has a much broader definition of who has covid. UK is narrower in comparison. Unfortunately in Europe the culture of mask wearing is relatively new. In South east asia disposable masks are widely available and people are covering their nose and mouths and these include school children. People even cover their mouth when talking on the phone if they are too loud. It was already the norm there to wear a mask if you had a cold but now its even more widespread.

[quote Oaktree55]@Gwenhwyfar out of interest what is mask policy in schools there pls?[/quote]
I work in primary and I am NOT ALLOWED to wear a mask. Neither are the children.

I have stuck to all the rules and haven’t met with anyone but my own household since March. I haven’t been to the pub or restaurants bit I have been to the local small supermarket. I’ve not stopped working though because we never actually closed. If I catch the virus it will probably be from work where there is no social distancing no masks and no money for extra cleaning etc. School DO need to be open but I believe it is education settings that will be the super spreaders.

Certainly in countries with strict mask rules and better adherence they've got lower numbers.

What, like Spain?

If seatbelts work then why do people still die in car crashes?

If community masking works at all, it probably doesn't do all that much. I think the motivations are theatrical rather than scientific. People want to feel in control, and governments want to look like they're doing something. Our energies are probably better spent elsewhere

Because people aren't wearing them consistently, especially when socialising, whether that is in hospitality businesses, parks or people's homes; and when they are wearing them (often incorrectly) they are forgetting to socially distance..

Please please please everyone try and keep up to date (I know it’s hard as you need to search for info as Gov don’t provide it) but

Transmission via touch of surfaces (yes even dirty masks) is now thought to be minimal.

It’s all aerosolisation inside with poor ventilation or at least mainly.

Ventilation ventilation ventilation and masks masks masks

Oh and teachers you can stop cleaning classrooms surfaces 🙄

www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf

The main route of transmission is within families and close social contacts who wouldn't wear masks when together. The main way to reduce the infection rate is to limit social contacts.

People are only wearing masks to walk around a shop. That's it.
Schools = no masks.
Pub = sit down and take your mask off
Restaurant = sit down and take your mask off
Cinema = sit down and take your mask off if you've got food.
Etc.

@HalfPastThree

If community masking works at all, it probably doesn't do all that much. I think the motivations are theatrical rather than scientific. People want to feel in control, and governments want to look like they're doing something. Our energies are probably better spent elsewhere

I have thought this from day One. I said so on my local fb group and was torn apart. Everybody clucking about face coverings detracts attention from the useless government.

People don't wear masks in schools.
People don't wear masks in restaurants/pubs.
People don't wear masks in their homes when they have friends round.
People don't wear masks in their cars when they give people lifts.
People don't wear masks on crowded streets.
People don't wear masks on the sidelines of their children's sporting events.
People don't wear masks as much as you think.

And a lot of people are still refusing to wear masks in shops and public transport even though they're supposed to. I saw a woman I know (and admittedly dislike) today smirk as she went into the local shop maskless. She has no issues, just thinks it's funny to flaunt not dong so. Felt rather sorry for the much older contingent who were in the local shop because they avoid the huge supermarket at the moment.

I'd say they are working

Hospitals aren't overwhelmed with covid patients at the moment which was the point if the national lockdown in the first place

Oak tree Yy.

Right at the very beginning though a man at London tropical medicine hospital said, it is a virus that lives in the throat. He knew ebola inside out and said corona is more contagious because its transmitted via the throat.. Aerosols, speaking.

Of course, you've got less chance of two people catching from each other, talking if both wear a a mask!

Of course! Even if the mask doesn't catch the virus the fibres could knock it off course going directly into the other person!

Two people talking with zero have little chance.

It's an aerosol airborne disease.

Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation... Indeed!!

"People don't wear masks in schools.
People don't wear masks in restaurants/pubs.
People don't wear masks in their homes when they have friends round.
People don't wear masks in their cars when they give people lifts.
People don't wear masks on crowded streets.
People don't wear masks on the sidelines of their children's sporting events.
People don't wear masks as much as you think."

A lot of this IS done here in Belgium and we still have rocketing numbers.

ithinkiveseenthisfilmbefore

Don't know where you live but where I am they are worn in pubs and restaurants unless you are sitting at a table , also loads of people wear them outide in town as its such a hassle to take them off in between going into shops

[quote tikha]@Gwenhwyfar have you been to Belgium during this covid times and lived and worked there extensively. On paper you can say UK has got high rates but in London I can see that most people dont know how to wear a mask properly. All inhibitions go out of the window with drinking in pubs and so on and so forth. The main difference now during this second wave is that people take extra precautions near care homes. In the same way in Belgium they might say they have high mask wearing rates but who knows if they are wearing it correctly. Plus Belgium has a much broader definition of who has covid. UK is narrower in comparison. Unfortunately in Europe the culture of mask wearing is relatively new. In South east asia disposable masks are widely available and people are covering their nose and mouths and these include school children. People even cover their mouth when talking on the phone if they are too loud. It was already the norm there to wear a mask if you had a cold but now its even more widespread.[/quote]
Yes, living and working here.
Belgium has high mask wearing rates and the places and instances where you have to wear one is much more than UK as I mentioned earlier.

"who knows if they are wearing it correctly."

Well, I know that a lot of people are not. You do see many people not covering the nose, some wearing it around their neck, etc. Even with only 80% compliance though that is still MUCH more mask wearing than the UK.

The virus is spread through close social contact, usually (unless super spreader event) involving face to face contact within 2m for 15 mins or more. No instance of this type of contact requires a face mask AFAIK, you should not be having this type of contact with anyone outside of your bubble, and if everyone followed that we wouldn't have a problem!

By the way OP, surely you're aware that the R rate of the disease is approximately halved by existing measures, naturally it is 3 and currently it is running at c1.5. I expect if more people actively avoided close social contact with others (as has been the guidance throughout!) it would be even lower.

University students getting together in groups and then passing the virus around (Manchester).(Exeter) (Cardiff)
People coming back from holiday and not quarantining (Bolton).
Large gatherings of people (Leicester)
Public Health England data shows people in the 20-39 age bracket are testing positive at higher rates than any other age group (fact despite what the it's the schools spreading it brigade think). Mix of behavioural and demographic.
More testing so more asymptomatic cases being flagged up (everywhere).
Testing is targeted at hotspots (hotspots)

The important thing is that hospital admissions and deaths are not rising proportionately with the overall infection number!