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If shielding means you get full pay without having to work in some jobs surely some people will push their doctor to say they need to shield

95 replies

Treesofwood · 11/10/2020 08:34

And their GP is going to feel they have to agree due to the repercussions should that person be unlucky?
It is a huge and unhelpful job to push onto GPs
But also it can be manipulated.
Of course the blanket shielding from March wasn't great either. Not sure what the answer is.

OP posts:
FourTeaFallOut · 11/10/2020 17:38

Have I missed an announcement about reinstating shielding or are we expecting tier three to come with shielding requirements?

I was asked to shield because I have asthma, or to be precise due to the meds I take to keep my lungs in line. I had hoped that any round two would involve 'smart shielding' and my age and sex would be considered mitigating factors.

RoseAndRose · 11/10/2020 17:42

Nothing has been announced yet.

When shielding was paused, there was also a warning that the list would be kept and a recall was possible if cases rose substantially. So it's widely expected to be included somewhere in the Tiers

FourTeaFallOut · 11/10/2020 17:50

Jesus, I can't do it again. Sad

Franklydear · 11/10/2020 17:53

@FourTeaFallOut I can’t either, if recalled, I will want much more specific information than the first time, and hopefully with all the washing, distancing and masks, I won’t get as many chest infections either, and that alone would put me in a better position

FourTeaFallOut · 11/10/2020 17:55

So, I'd be dumped in round 6 for a covid vaccination but I'm asked to hide away from the world or worse, told to keep my distance from my children, so I don't cause an inconvenience by needing a hospital bed if it comes to it? No, fuck that for a game of soldiers.

SaltyAndFresh · 11/10/2020 17:56

If you are told to shield as a teacher I can't see you losing your job. I might be wrong. And there will be people who will push to shield

Oh goody, teacher bashing by stealth. Say what you mean OP.

FourTeaFallOut · 11/10/2020 17:57

Sorry, I'm ranting generally. Didn't mean that to sound like I was ranting at you Blush

Northernsoulgirl45 · 11/10/2020 18:08

My ecv dh kept working from home whilst shielding paying hrt to help cover other peoples furlough.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 11/10/2020 18:22

Yeah he had do much fun being unable to hug his kids and I slept on sofa. Such fun all to protect the NHS and his health.

iVampire · 11/10/2020 18:35

Yes, if (or rather when) recalled I’m going to have to work out how I arrange home life.

DC were both here and came behind the shield with me over the summer. DS is at university, so don’t need to think about him. But DD is at school (6th form) - do I share her risk (in which case I may as well continue daily outdoors exercise rather than full shielding) or do we have to find a way to be apart even at home?

Treesofwood · 11/10/2020 23:12

Ivampire I really can't see sheilding meaning not crossing the threshold again. We know far more about how it spreads now.
Besides it's not an instruction afaik

OP posts:
Northernsoulgirl45 · 12/10/2020 00:14

Surely the point of your op is to imply that shielding was a jolly break on full pay when actually it was nothing of the sort and definitely not something to aspire to.

JaceLancs · 12/10/2020 01:38

DM was in shielding category as was DSIL - both pensioners so no change in income
I was also due to raft of health conditions - carried on WFH so didn’t claim anything - this time I’m not shielding for anyone my MH would not survive it again - I’ll take my chances

WwMILd · 12/10/2020 06:00

@Treesofwood I think you are getting your high risk of developing complications (shielding people) mixed up with your moderate risk.

MiracletoCome · 12/10/2020 06:27

Most shielding people either wfh if they could or were on the 80% furlough like everyone else weren’t they, I don’t think they got any special treatment

Regarding computers and the elderly, many cannot afford to heat their houses properly, owning a computer is not cheap as you also have to pay for the associated broadband and phones are very small and fiddling for the elderly to use the internet on. DF is 85 and has one of those phones with large number buttons as his eyesight is not good and he is very shaky so cannot use a smartphone properly

Pixxie7 · 12/10/2020 06:47

Not everyone is out for an easy ride and would much rather be at work, than have to essentially hide from society. Also give gp’s credit, they are intelligent professionals and not going to just give in to pressure.

IrmaFayLear · 12/10/2020 09:21

I wasn’t talking about the infirm elderly, but those people who seem to embrace pensioner status. Fil retired at 60 and called himself, with no humour, a “pensioner” and threw himself into being an old person. He even voted for some miserable “Pensioner Party” whose manifesto was more free stuff for pensioners. (He and mil were quite well off, incidentally.) Actually I think he’d been waiting to be a pensioner his entire life.

Anyway, so what I was saying that some people just like to whinge about their lot and won’t help themselves. ‘‘Twas ever thus.

20mum · 12/10/2020 16:47

The work undone is something I have long campaigned and thought about. Disabled, elderly and carers all have need for input of attention, ideas, personal intervention and advocacy. Teachers can coach from home. Exercise coaches can usefully drag their attention from the already fit to the least fit. Unemployed bar or casino staff can either sit staring at the wall demanding money from the taxpurse, or go and shadow any useful job which makes lives better, not worse, for the recipient.

The concept of 'shadowing' is the same as 'work experience', 'internship' or 'sit by Nellie'. Get the measure of a job by watching and learning, and in a small way assisting. People go into houses as well as other care and health settings, to help people who need all manner of help. A hard pressed care professional may be frantically trying to complete everything from personal care, preparing food and assisting the person eating it, racing round to do essential housework, ensuring medicine is taken on time, and filling in a lot of paperwork. Being busily furloughed as an actor or cabin crew or clerical assistant may be less satisfying than doing something life enhancing.

Those who are vulnerable if they leave home can work from home. If their former job no longer exists, even temporarily, they can change to one that does. If even they can't, they can earn their dole
(fancifully renamed 'furlough' or not) and their self respect at the same time as making themselves employable by learning something new, or by teaching something. Making friends with another person online or on the phone means taking time to comprehend what that person needs, such as help to order online, or someone to act as a personal advocate in place of a non-existent supportive relative . Advocates are desperately needed, especially for isolated people, to fight their corner with everything from trying to get an appointment, or get to it, or trying to get a mystery bill re-assessed, or talking through some techno problem, or a personal disaster, when the person has nowhere to turn for support and no relative to fight on their behalf.

While Rishi is bunging money at harmful, life destroying activities like alcohol and gambling, not a penny goes to social care.

The point about c.c.t.v. recording and preventing abuse is that whistle blowers, journalists, activists, concerned relatives or activists may detect or prevent only a miniscule percentage. There are not enough cameras and not enough people to view the hours of footage. This was first an idea regarding employment or soul-mending opportunity for disabled people to do something useful in the world, even from their beds. With Covid, there is a vast increase in untapped resource of surplus effort and available hours.

The prevention is the main thing. You will not go and kick people or animals, even on night shift, when you know without doubt that the c.c.t.v. footage of your shift will be reviewed. Someone, somewhere in the country, will get an hour of it to scan. Someone else will get another. If either of them is uneasy about something they see, or hear, they will flag an alert and an extra few chunks will go to other people to view. You won't get away with threatening, bullying or abuse, of those in your power, or (also importantly) of your colleagues. Nobody needs to whistle blow or snitch. It's out of their hands. You will be caught, and the evidence will be there, so you just know you dare not do it.

Over and again, scandals happen because fellow workers dare not report, or because managers don't investigate, or because there is no independent, unarguable, c.c.t.v. sound and filmed proof of bullying and power abuse. (Or wrong medical or restraint practices) Good, caring staff are forced to leave because they cannot stand by while helpless to prevent what is wrong. The health and care services are riddled with monstrous practices, continuing for decades, because nobody dares protest. C.C.T.V., viewed by independent witnesses, would prevent a lot of harm. (Someone who wants to report but not report, can find pretexts to be 'accidentally' revealing while on the phone or chatting to another of the innocent colleagues)

C.C.T.V is compulsory in slaughterhouses (but will any staff believe it will be viewed?), but it is not even compulsory, let alone viewed, in care homes. Unemployed people, retired people, caring people and disabled people can all view footage from home

IrmaFayLear · 12/10/2020 16:57

Well, that’s an idea! But how would you check that these people were sitting watching CCTV all day?

Also, care home neglect is not necessarily physical abuse. I saw a thing where somebody pretended to be a care-home resident and wore a hidden camera. The staff did not speak English. They were not unkind nor did they ever harm her, but just talked to each other and did not interact once with the resident. That would not be picked up on CCTV.

20mum · 12/10/2020 18:17

@IrmaFayLear Good points. I'm the opposite of a techno geek, but I don't suggest watching all day, maybe just ten or fifteen minutes at a time. I do suggest that people actually want to be useful, and feel better for doing it. Presumably, the tape would need key strokes to scroll through it, so that section would register as having been viewed.

Your point about having native speakers of one's own language, and local dialect, is well made and perceptive. It's one of the areas of unintentional abuse, as you say. With limited hearing and/or comprehension, a Glaswegian may not be able to explain himself to a Welsh carer or nurse, let alone one speaking Polish.

There is a regrettable habit of speaking to colleagues, ignoring the person meant to be cared for. It is at the least impolite. Worse, it reveals a belief the cared-for person is dehumanised. Even a person who can no longer move or speak can usually still hear, and still feel a gentle, caring touch. That is where shadowing, and witnessing, and filming, and above all the extra, outsider untapped workforce, have the chance to be transformative.

There's a thread running currently on MN, where carers are explaining their work and experience. In one case, two staff to 40 patients. In another only seven minutes to wash and dress someone. More witnessing online, and more physical help are both needed. Intern, shadow, trainee, work experience, or whatever it's called, getting more people in can only help, and it brings fresh eyes to the sort of thing you describe. Good practice will be rewarded when no watchers ever have any doubts to report. Less ideal practice will be identified.

Even if one Liverpudlian points out he himself cannot comprehend what that very nice Cockney care worker says, it is a help. Relying on an immigrant workforce disadvantages the care recipients, but so does any shortage of paid workers plus their volunteer shadowers. If a particular problem is identified, a home working fellow countryman could be invited to live-assist over a camera phone, to give reassurance and translation in the person's own language or accent. I don't have an exact example, but do remember someone elderly (they tend to have grown up with stronger local accents) who was trying with distress to inform a nurse something about his, let's say "gang t kong", meaning, let's say, in deep Yorkshire colloquial, something really important for the doctor to know.

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