Would you support a lock down NZ style now?

[Bubblesbubblesmybubbles]

Just wondered how people would feel if, say, we were told we will shut borders next tuesday (as an example - gives people time to get home) and we will then lock down hard in order to offer normality after? It wouldnt have worked at the first lock down as i dont think many expected this to go on so long but maybe it could now?!

Personally I find this mid ground frustrating! If we did that then it would be sooner that theatres, sports, everything could resume BUT I am aware I am very lucky that I can work from home so wouldnt be financially impacted. Long term - I feel like our economy would be hit hard initially but recover faster and stronger

I know it wont happen but I just see friends in Australia and NZ and am so very jealous!

No, far too late. ICovid is firmly embedded in UK population. Even with closed borders it will run rife. Borders should have been closed in March.

IOM did it, obviously on much smaller scale. But it’s not a long term solution. When do you lift it?

Really interesting to hear thoughts, thank you

Its not a long term solution while Covid is endemic in the rest of the world. How many British immigrants are living in NZ at the moment, unable to visit UK to see elderly relatives for example? How long do you keep that up without the people starting to get angry?

How would you make that Good Friday Agreement Compliant? There’s not allowed to be a border between NI and Ireland under the terms of the GFA.

We could have done it in March. Remember that brief time when everyone thought we were in it together and we wanted to support each other? But then the government took the piss and told us we were doing it wrong, and all that goodwill went out the window.

The NZ plan worked because leaders were honest and empathetic. There was no mixed messaging, and no big blame game. Can you think of a group that hasn't had the blame chucked at them (us) for something? When you start playing people off against each other, any chance of a mass community effort is gone.

@secretllama

Its not a long term solution while Covid is endemic in the rest of the world. How many British immigrants are living in NZ at the moment, unable to visit UK to see elderly relatives for example? How long do you keep that up without the people starting to get angry?

No one is stopping them leaving NZ.

I was shocked to learn from my NZ aunt that they had been back in lockdown because of a rise in cases recently. Everyone seems to think that NZ is some sort of covid free mecca. I wish we had closed our borders in March but it's too late now.

No chance.

Yes I would but we would need it supporting by the army, police, marshals etc given the number who selfishly already don’t comply.

Yes, maybe it is too late. There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of compliance at present here anyway.

With people saying people in NZ cant see UK based family, looks like that may be true soon of those even in the UK too.

I think I'm just dreaming of an end point/normality and wondering what could offer us that

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Yes I would but we would need it supporting by the army, police, marshals etc given the number who selfishly already don’t comply.

All those extra military and police are coming from where? The only reason they didn’t do that before, like other European countries, checking papers etc. Is because we don’t have that manpower. It’s been cut to the bare minimum, like everything else.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Yes I would but we would need it supporting by the army, police, marshals etc given the number who selfishly already don’t comply.

How well do you think that would work in Northern Ireland?

No. NZ have kicked the can down the road and are gambling on a (very effective) vaccine being available fairly soon. They might win that gamble, but if, say, the vaccine is only 50% effective... well, what do they do then?

The UK might (although you've got NI and a high level of regular imports, and also vast differences in population density, etc) manage an initial borders closed lockdown, but the sheer volume of people who want to leave or enter (and the effect on the economy) would mean you'd have to essentially reopen the borders fairly soon afterwards, so the virus would just come straight back in.

@Bubblesbubblesmybubbles

Just wondered how people would feel if, say, we were told we will shut borders next tuesday (as an example - gives people time to get home) and we will then lock down hard in order to offer normality after? It wouldnt have worked at the first lock down as i dont think many expected this to go on so long but maybe it could now?!

Personally I find this mid ground frustrating! If we did that then it would be sooner that theatres, sports, everything could resume BUT I am aware I am very lucky that I can work from home so wouldnt be financially impacted. Long term - I feel like our economy would be hit hard initially but recover faster and stronger

I know it wont happen but I just see friends in Australia and NZ and am so very jealous!

It is too late for us. Our infections are too high. Shutting the borders and a quick lockdown only works if infections in the country are low to start with, track and trace is efficient and self isolation for incoming people is strictly enforced.

I was shocked to learn from my NZ aunt that they had been back in lockdown because of a rise in cases recently. Everyone seems to think that NZ is some sort of covid free mecca.

Only Auckland was in lockdown, now out of it, the rest of us were just taking a few more precautions than normal. It worked by the way.

Well I’d say we have been among one of the top 5 shittiest responses to the pandemic and will pay for it in terms of deaths AND the economy. And we are carrying on being completely shit.

Crude numbers...
£128 billion for first 3 months (mostly lockdown conditions).
£400 billion as upper limit estimate in August, before there were lots of local lockdown.
Suppose the final cost (over next 5 years, in today's money) is £545 billion (convenient numbers). 27 million workers in UK, so that's £20.2k per person in the workforce. If you have 2 workers in your household - £40,400 for your household, in direct or indirect costs.

I believe £545 billion as final total is way too low, and that's definitely without national lockdown again.

I presume those estimates include interest charges on the debts. Dunno if includes the costs of 360 million vaccine does.

@MJMG2015 Noone is stopping them physically leaving. But having to spend an extra $5000 and 2 weeks unpaid to quarantine on return to NZ is just not feasible for some families. So they will not be able to visit family overseas.

Yeah, here in Auckland we had a second lockdown recently because some cases were found. All over again now , I guess we’ll keep doing this every time they find something . I want it to stay completely Covid free like this until after election next Saturday . I’m anxious thinking about when I’ll see parents , siblings in England but , with the distance and price of air tickets I only get back every few years anyway so it’s video calling as usual so trying not to think of that and be grateful that schools are open and life is normal for now.

No, because the horse hasn't only bolted, it's about 100 miles down the road. Should've been done in February.

I’m watching the replay of the rugby from last night - NZ vs Wallabies, with a nearly full stadium of fans - and was just pondering a move to NZ in the future as they do seem to have their shit together.

No.

People are having to apply to leave to visit dying relatives in other countries as borders are closed. Like fuck do I want to live in a country that would treat its citizens in such way.

NZ hasn’t magically “cured” itself anyway, it’s shut the borders and not let its citizens out or anyone in. Fair to early to declare them a success tbh.

Isn't there a quota for letting people back in Aus &/or NZ so random lottery whether they let you back in this is citizens, btw, not allowed in.

No one is stopping them leaving NZ.

Australians aren’t allowed to leave unless they can show they are going back to their normal permanent home or not planning to come back within 3 months. New Zealand has a “do not travel” advisory for its residents, so you effectively have to travel uninsured.

An old friend of mine just spent 2 weeks locked in a room with no windows with her baby that was born in lockdown because her Mum is dying from cancer and more or less being kept going on chemo in order to see her daughter. She suffered a couple of flights home being cancelled and she is separated from her husband & 2 young children, whose flight home has been cancelled too. If/when they arrive, they will need to go into quarantine as well. How is that humane?