Is there any evidence of transmission on surfaces actually happening?

[LeanishMachine]

We're all doing extra cleaning, spending a fortune on chemical cleaners and god knows how many disposable gloves but is there any evidence that the virus is actually transmitted this way?

I understand it's theoretically possible, but to say, catch it from a door handle. Person one needs to have droplets on their hands in sufficient quantity and quality to transfer it to the door, where is has to remain in viable condition until person 2 touches it in such a way that they transfer sufficient quality and quantity to their hand and then to their face before they wash or sanitize their hands.

Is that actually happening? And if so, contact tracing won't work. How would it know who's touched the surfaces you touched before you were there?

In short, no. Viruses need human hosts.

Largely no. It's a larger risk for little kids than adults because of behaviour; nurseries particularly. Washing hands matters when you've touched anything out and about that might have been used just moments before like door handles or when you've touched people, but not so much for post / railings outside / food packaging once you've got it home.

Who is using gloves? What an pointless wasteful item, never have we been told to wear disposable gloves.

Who says we need expensive chemical cleaner? Hot water and soap will clean your kitchen sides etc. You can choose to buy cleaner but you don’t need it.

No evidence for people catching it off tables etc

Yes.

www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427446/rubbish-bin-the-likely-source-of-covid-infection

@CakeGirl2020

Who is using gloves? What an pointless wasteful item, never have we been told to wear disposable gloves.

Who says we need expensive chemical cleaner? Hot water and soap will clean your kitchen sides etc. You can choose to buy cleaner but you don’t need it.

No evidence for people catching it off tables etc

Schools, shops, sports clubs etc etc have spray cleaner and antibacterial hand stuff everywhere. Soap and water might work but it's not convenient and it's not what's been used.

No one's been told to wear gloves, I agree, but they have been scared witless about touching anything.

Nope. All the surface transmission stuff at the beginning was a bit of a red herring which unfortunately seems to have distracted some people from taking the more effective precautions like distancing and ventilation.

I thought it was still uncertain but we DO know that colds and flu are transmitted that way and given that people with colds are frequently having to isolate and get covid tests it is a good idea to keep transmission of those down as much as possible this year.

Schools, shops, sports clubs etc etc have spray cleaner and antibacterial hand stuff everywhere. What effect does "antibacterial hand stuff" have on a virus?

And if contact transmission is unlikely, why are we still being told to wash our hands frequently?

The latest evidence is the chance Of catching Covid from a surface is extremely, extremely small.
It’s people breathing and sneezing and coughing near you that gives you the virus.
All the sanitising surfaces and hands is actually going down a road of causing great harm in future years if we don’t stop

Studies have certainly proven the virus, like many others can survive on inanimate objects for a varying lengths of time (7 days on disposable masks being the longest) however proving the virus is being transmitted this way will be more difficult.
Fomite transmission is real though and is the reason clinical environments have biosecurity policies, lack of hygiene where clothes and surfaces are concerned is often why people get infections whilst in hospital.

@MereDintofPandiculation keep up! This was discussed months ago. The virus' outer membrane can be destroyed by alcohol (as well as soap and hot water) rendering the virus effectively "dead" and anti bacterial hand gels that have over 70% alcohol are effective at doing this.

elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/

Very unlikely you’ll get it from surfaces. Not impossible by any means but unlikely. This ‘hygiene theatre’ is for our own reassurance mainly and actually takes away from focusing people on distancing and ventilation which is much more important. As masks give some people false confidence and they therefore don’t distance!

@MereDintofPandiculation

Schools, shops, sports clubs etc etc have spray cleaner and antibacterial hand stuff everywhere. What effect does "antibacterial hand stuff" have on a virus?

And if contact transmission is unlikely, why are we still being told to wash our hands frequently?

When I read this comment I actually had to check the date to make sure this wasnt a zombie thread.

Have you really not seen the hand sanitizer available in every single shop, cafe, gym, attraction and venue?

Way back in February and March there were loads of people trying to be clever by saying "antibacterial wont work, it's a virus, ho ho ho". It wasnt clever then and it's even less so now.

@MereDintofPandiculation

And if contact transmission is unlikely, why are we still being told to wash our hands frequently?
Same reason people were told to eat carrots to help you see better in WW2. BS to make you feel like you can do something.

Dh had covid & while the rest of us were all isolating we used gloves, wipes, & masks in the house while preparing food until the 14 days were up as we didn’t know if any of us could be asymptomatic. I’d rather be safe than sorry. We were meticulous about washing hands & cleaned the house thoroughly when he was diagnosed. No idea how he got it either. The rest of us didn’t.

Just to put you off your leisurely Sunday breakfast,

as well, as considering fomites, think of the known oral-faecal route (mechanism of contamination on cruise ships)

www.cebm.net/covid-19/sars-cov-2-orofecal-transmission/

Hand hygiene is recommended to protect you from more than Covid, btw. I don't really fancy having noro either. And I'm ready to bet good money that health planners really don't want any noro clusters this winter either.

Same reason people were told to eat carrots to help you see better in WW2. BS to make you feel like you can do something

The problem with that is:

You need good vitamin A levels for optimal eye health. Carrots contain a lot of vitamin A. If you eat plenty, you are unlikely to incur diseases which arise from deficiency. Therefore 'good' for your eyesight by keeping it normal.

Over interpretation (that it will make it even better) is wrong. But in mocking that, the underlying science is lost.

@PicsInRed beat me to it by posting the link, but yes, it has in NZ.

I'm not cleaning more. And I don't use hand sanitiser either.

My friends very dear friend caught CV during lockdown and sadly died.

They think she picked it up from a petrol pump. Pretty much the only thing she had done out of house, was fill up her car.

[quote eaglejulesk]@PicsInRed beat me to it by posting the link, but yes, it has in NZ.[/quote]
Yes, twice in fact.

The 'bin' posted above AND in a lift.

NZ are EFFECTIVELY tracking & tracing the odd case so they can be sure.

A touch top bin & a lift button. Both were touched fairly soon after the infected person touched them, so still no proof of how long the virus will stay active in the real world (as opposed to a lab).

So yes, washing hands & cleaning ARE very important. At home dishwashing liquid & bleach are cheap & easy. I only use wipes for things like my phone & car key fob etc.

In places where soap & water aren't practical , schools/offices/shops should be buying in bulk, it's really not expensive. Certainly less expensive than hospital admissions!

The risk of surface transmission is not zero but it is much, much lower than catching COVID from person to person interaction.

The two NZ examples are "likely" rather than confirmed and I think we should view them in context of 1,871 cases reported in the country.

I agree (based on SARS/MERS data) that out of all potential surface transmission channels, the oral-faecal route bears the highest risk so bathroom hygiene is clearly very important.

However, the current obsession with hand sanitisers might have gone over the top and, unfortunately, appears to encourage neurotic and compulsive behaviour.

Isn't it more likely that people caught it because it's airborne than from surfaces? Wasn't there some canteen in Germany or somewhere where it was thought it was from a salt cellar that everyone had touched? I just wonder if more likely from aerosol droplets/airborne contamination instead?

Definitely a possibility, Tobee. I don’t see how we would know for sure it was touch unless the place was so well ventilated as to make airborne impossible.

The lift could support the newest evidence around aerosol transmission - tiny particles that hang in the air rather than drop. So were still knocking about the very enclosed lift after infected person left. Then new person got a few good lungfuls during their trip in the lift.