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Why or why did they open universities

96 replies

Alex50 · 08/10/2020 18:41

Universities should all have been online this year, students should never have been encouraged to go. It’s a recipe for disaster. The students will eventually come home as they can’t keep locking the students away week after week.

OP posts:
SueEllenMishke · 08/10/2020 22:50

and access to other uni resources

What would be open if lectures aren’t and socialising is extremely restricted?

In most case those that have moved teaching online are still keeping the library open as well as offering on campus support services running ( disability, well being, Careers )

GervaseFen · 08/10/2020 22:50

I'm not the person making the decisions Keating, maybe direct your hostility at those who can (ie govt).
I would guess about half would have gone anyway, as I said.
Resources on campus usually include libraries, study space, performing spaces, sports centres etc all which could be run more safely with fewer students on campus.

OhTheRoses · 08/10/2020 22:51

Perhaps is schools and unis had gone back in May when the sombrero had been squashed a bit more herd immunity would have built up in the summer months amongst healthy young people.

Trying to remember why that didn't happen. Oh yes the teaching unions and the UCU specifically at universities.

MissEliza · 08/10/2020 22:51

@Pixxie7 you might want to edit your post.

TheKeatingFive · 08/10/2020 22:57

I'm not the person making the decisions Keating, maybe direct your hostility at those who can (ie govt).

I’m just challenging your points. I’ve no skin in this game. but it’s obvious why F2F teaching is key to universities financial model.

Pixxie7 · 08/10/2020 23:06

Sorry that should be knew and shouldn’t.

Pixxie7 · 08/10/2020 23:06

Wouldn’t.

IcedPurple · 08/10/2020 23:07

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

Because on line learning is lonely, isolating and shite. Because young people have the lowest risk level Because we have to accept that life needs to go on, we can’t have a whole generation of young people hiding at home
Yes, yes and yes.
JS87 · 08/10/2020 23:10

In my opinion and experience universities wanted to be online only for the first semester. However they knew that there would be fewer international students and they would be in debt. Then home students were complaining about paying 9k for online courses. Cases went down in the summer so unis decided to bring in some face to face teaching to encourage home students not to defer.

choirmumoftwo · 08/10/2020 23:29

@LadyCatStark DD is at Lancaster and has very few complaints so far, apart from the new post collection system. She knew that her house would be her bubble before she arrived, that most teaching would be online and that she'll probably have to self-isolate at some point. And she still wanted to go and is happy and settled.
I fully accept there are issues to be addressed and it's not the typical freshers experience but it was never going to be that. I personally don't feel that DD was misled in any way.
Not all students and parents are wringing their hands over the situation - just concentrating on getting on with it.

Janevaljane · 09/10/2020 07:15

Not all students and parents are wringing their hands over the situation - just concentrating on getting on with it

Exactly.

SueEllenMishke · 09/10/2020 07:49

Not all students and parents are wringing their hands over the situation - just concentrating on getting on with it.
Exactly this.
Lots of students are having a positive experience- yes it's different but we all knew that would be the case.
Both me and DH work at universities ( one of which has featured heavily in the press) and we have never worked so hard or such long hours to ensure that students are getting the best experience possible. And I know this is typical across the sector.... you only had to see the response in Twitter to William Hutton's article in the guardian last weekend to see how hard we're all working and how much we care.

Janevaljane · 09/10/2020 07:58

Dds uni has been brilliant. They are also cracking down really hard on repeat house party offenders (yes they still went on although according to dd they've all simmered down now).

DominaShantotto · 09/10/2020 08:47

Most of us are getting on with it (indeed I sent an email to my lecturers the other day letting them know their absolutely bonkersly huge efforts in basically redesigning the entire course for online delivery were appreciated) - but it's hell.

You could see my assessment results completely tail off once uni went online last year - there's half an assignment I'd written before uni closed that was really really good, and the lecturer marking it commented the other half was so much weaker it was a visible difference - lack of ability to get to the IT lab to access the software needed to fiddle about again with my sample for extra info to import in, the library shut so we just had to rely on what was available online (thankfully at least they've got a lot of e-book resources at mine - but my dyslexia really struggles with on-screen swathes of academic text)... and my dyslexia note-taking software really doesn't work well for online delivery (my whole DSA package was set up based on traditional uni campus model of working).

SueEllenMishke · 09/10/2020 09:16

but my dyslexia really struggles with on-screen swathes of academic text)... and my dyslexia note-taking software really doesn't work well for online delivery (my whole DSA package was set up based on traditional uni campus model of working).

And this is exactly why we should be cautious about moving everything online as a default.
It doesn't work well for everyone.
Campuses are, on the whole, very safe- that's not where the huge numbers of infections are.
Accommodation is the issue

Catyness · 09/10/2020 09:32

I fully expected DSS uni to be online until at least after Christmas but it wasn't and off he went. He was so happy to go and have a bit of freedom. He's been great being careful so he didn't bring the virus home to us but he knows he's low risk and really needed to do some socialising. It was lovely to hear him so happy, making new friends with his flatmates and sport clubs.

Now, less than 2 weeks in, it looks like he has Covid. Hopefully it'll be mild and he'll fully recover, but it is a worrying time with him being locked in away from home.

Popcornriver · 09/10/2020 09:33

Because universities and landlords in university towns plus other businesses would have lost out on money.

Plus the BBC and other news seemed to be full of angry parents and students arguing online wasn't good enough, they were paying for the university experience, not just the learning.

Janevaljane · 09/10/2020 10:07

Dd didn't want to have to pay 500 a month rent for a house she didn't live in for a start.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 11/10/2020 13:38

In what insane version of the economy is it greed to run a business to make a profit? The lack of understanding of how the economy works on here is absolutely terrifying sometimes.

It's a whole other argument that until Blair came into power the education system was viewed as an education system. What it's now become is a cutthroat business model that aims to process as many students through its doors as possible, like a baked bean factory, irrespective of whether they are suited to or can benefit from HE.

On top of this we now have STEM and the arts and humanities periodically played off against one another to accommodate that business model: STEM being expensive to teach and A&H, being less so, achieving the 'bums on seats' objective.

Now we have a glut of graduates from those disciplines and not enough from STEM (predicably), the latter are now being told their degrees are the only ones worth having and the former that they've studied a 'Mickey Mouse' subject (this includes English and History graduates) and as a consequence have a lesser value in the labour market.

All this is inevitable when government policy loses sight of what higher education is actually for. Wait and see what happens when venues like art galleries and museums can no longer be maintained in the wake of the Covid mess, or theatres are closing hand over fist (a good many of them already being under imminent threat). It's not all about economics. Cultural impoverishment is still a form of impoverishment.

The 'why not teach offline' conundrum is really simple. If universities offer no face to face teaching and move to an online only model, there'll be an unholy rumpus about students being charged £9K PA in tuition fees, and pressure will start to mount to offer a reduction. Indeed, that's already happening. The universities, in terms of cuts to HEFCE funding etc., simply can't afford that. Not in terms of PR, and certainly not in monetary terms. We've just had the predicable email that despite our hard work and all pulling together in the face of this crisis, there will be no inflation-based pay rises this year.

I'm afraid any consideration for students' wellbeing doesn't come into it as far as VCs (who net a huge annual salary) and university/faculty management are concerned. It's all about the money.

DitheringDan · 11/10/2020 14:10

DS is at Manchester and pretty happy so far. He’s a second year in a houseshare with people he likes, though, which makes a big difference.

He has found that one advantage of online learning is that two modules that clashed now don’t, as he doesn’t physically need to be in two places at once.

He’s a bit gutted at the loss of the music scene and general city vibe that he so enjoyed last year, but he’s a stoical sort and is indeed ‘just getting on with it’.

HoldMyLobster · 11/10/2020 21:33

DD's American university moved almost all learning to online only, gave students the choice of coming back or not, made it clear that if they came back the opportunities to socialize would be very limited, and ended up deciding it would still be too unsafe to bring all the students back for the first term.

As a result DD has been studying from home. She's pragmatic about it.

Her university is testing all on-campus students weekly and has a 0.3% positivity rare. No outbreaks.

The local community sees that the university is being careful, and supports more students coming back in January. DD will probably be one of them.

It didn't have to be done the way UK universities did it.

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