Year bubble closed - can't find guidance on how this works practically?

[MsGillis]

Apologies, I've googled and searched here before posting this, but I can't find any definitive guidance.

Year 8 child has been told to isolate for 14 days after someone in their year group tested positive. That's fine, I'm glad the school are taking it seriously as I know other schools are just isolating children who were literally sat next to a child who's tested positive.

What I don't know, is whether we should all be distancing from him at home while we wait to see if he develops symptoms?

And can anyone explain to me how it's supposed to be ok to send my Year 10 child in, even though Year 8 child isn't allowed to set foot outside? If (heaven forbid) my youngest one develops symptoms and has the virus, the eldest is likely to do the same, but has then had x days at school to infect their whole year group. I know that technically that is the guidance, but can anyone explain why it is, and how it doesn't put another year group at risk?

Was he actually close to the person who has it or not?

Many schools only send home close contacts, not the whole year.

Currently absolutely no idea! Waiting for further news...

I've googled, and read some "facts" in local news reports etc but surely it's not right that I can't find any official guidelines about this, is it? It's not as though it's not extremely relevant to an awful lot of us right now...

Ask the school tp provide further guidance on the siblings situation.

If at all possible could they sleep in separate bedrooms and maybe members of the family can do a wipe down of the taps/door handles etc regularly? Statistically, if someone is exposed to the virus, the average to develop symptoms is around 5 days but it can take up to 14 days.

We had a partial closure of our secondary school last week and siblings were expected to attend schools. But I get your point.

Thing is, if Bob has it and you isolate all year 8, PLUS all of year 8s immediate family, every class bubble would see 100-200 people isolating (30 kids, 60 parents, say 30 siblings, 1 staff, 1 partner, 2 kids).

And yes in theory you're meant to isolate from him. Done if you've got a big house and he's 18, harder in a small house when he's 5...

if you isolated contacts of contacts then that would be a ridiculous amount of people, every time. If you think of all the children that are siblings of kids that are in year 8 that would be several hundred more.

Imagine the implications in the NHS if not only contacts had to isolate, but contacts of contacts.

I’m sure the year group will know who has it, your ds will know if it’s someone he was sitting near or someone he’s not had any close contact with.

PS I would find it hard to isolate a child in this kind of scenario - mine are much younger though. If a teenage child is actually happy to shut himself in his room for a fortnight though, I suppose as a one off I would encouarge.

@SleepingStandingUp

Thing is, if Bob has it and you isolate all year 8, PLUS all of year 8s immediate family, every class bubble would see 100-200 people isolating (30 kids, 60 parents, say 30 siblings, 1 staff, 1 partner, 2 kids).

This is true. But if they don't - potentially they could all catch it. And in that number, some of them may have a serious reaction to it.

So I get that it's an acceptable risk if keeping everything running and folk at work is the priority, but I don't get it if safeguarding health is?

This whole thing is just draining. Meanwhile poor youngest worried about being too close to us.

You are right there is a massive gap, and I have highlighted this to our school also. DS in Yr5 was in this situation, but it turned out to be a mistake and he was back in school the next day. Fact is though that there are no explanations on the government websites for how households should behave when a DEPENDENT in the household is self isolating. If it's the case that everyone is independent then yes they have to isolate themselves from the rest of the house. But there are no guidelines for a situation where the self isolating person is a child, or otherwise has needs where it's not realistic to physically distance.

In reality I think you carry on as normal inside your home but don't have visitors, cleaner, or anyone in. And child can't go out. Probably that's the best anyone can do.

However if isolating child is too young to be left alone, and you have other children to drop and pick from school, then it's literally impossible. No one has addressed this.

I don't even know and I'm a teacher!

I've currently got both my kids off school because one has had to be tested so I'm just assuming I've understood the rules properly that we all have to isolate until a negative result for one child . Otherwise my other kid is missing school for nothing!

Honestly the rules are so confusing how can we ever be expected to get stuff right

We've had a similar situation and the school insisted that siblings of those isolating should go in to school as normal. They sent a letter asking where possible to distance from the isolating chikd within the home. PHE must think we all have mansions where we can put one child in the East wing and one in the West wing!

In reality it's not practical for most families and a lot of my mum friends have said they aren't going to bother. Apart from anything, sticking a 7 year old in their room for 2 weeks unable to interact with the family or even have a hug would in any other circumstances be considered emotional abuse/neglect. Even for older kids there's a serious mental health issue to consider.

*child
Sorry for typo!

It has to be a balance, so contacts of contacts don't isolate. Protecting health can't be seen in isolation, when thinking of the social / economic / MH impact of this.

My 10yo DS has to isolate recently as part of a bubble. We didn't try to distance from him at home as that wouldn't sit right with me. If he had symptoms, however, we would have done things to mitigate our risk whist still looking after him as we should.

But imagine schools where they've sent home or whole years op, of several forms.
100 kids. 6 teachers.
200 parents.
150 siblings.
6 partners
12 children

And your kids went to Maccies at the weekend so now track and trace call the family sitting next door. They have to isolate but also the rest of their school years, the parents colleagues too.

It simply isn't practical to isolate contacts of contacts if we intend to keep schools and workplaces open

I think it's just balancing risks and benefits. Contacts of contacts don't need to isolate but obviously it's difficult for the initial contact to isolate from the rest of the family.
I'd use sense, have them sleep in different rooms if possible not share food and drink or hug and kiss/sit closely together on sifa etc. But I wouldn't be wiping down surfaces obsessively or trying to keep them two metres apart at all time.

I can give you my personal experience and the advice the school received for primary aged children.

My youngest child’s bubble burst the beginning of last week. We’re now on day 10, I think, of isolation. No one else has caught the virus within the bubble. We have no idea who has/had it. The LEA advised that siblings should be at school and that the potentially infected child could attend school runs if absolutely necessary as long as they were wearing a face mask.

My eldest child is now in a bubble that has the potential of bursting as well. We’re just waiting on news of that. Nothing to do with the infected first child elsewhere in the school. Home education kicked in straight away. It’s okay. I’m pissed off as my life is once more on hold but otherwise it’s all been relatively straight forward. No drama.

You are supposed to isolate from them where possible, so they should stay in their room, wipe whatever they touch in the bathroom etc.

You don't have to isolate, in that you can still go out and about unless she develops symptoms (in which case you should isolate until she's tested, and continue if it comes back positive), but you should spend as little time near her as possible.

I actually think it's quite horrible to have to tell a child to keep to their room, but that's what you're meant to do.

Your child's situation is the same as if he had been contacted by track and trace. He says away from the rest of you, but you'd don't isolate UNLESS he develops symptoms. If he does, you all isolate until he gets a test result. Clearly laid out at www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/nhs-test-and-trace-if-youve-been-in-contact-with-a-person-who-has-coronavirus/.

It's all to do with probabilities, incubation periods and managing risk.

Your year 8 child is asymptomatic, the chances of them having corona is low, chances as being asymptomatic and passing it on even lower, and the chances of your or another family as a twice removed contact being asymptomatic but contagious even lower still, its a bit like the reverse of exponential growth, the odds become extremely small, extremely quickly with each jump you make from a confirmed case.

the older sibling though hasn't been in contact with anyone with symptoms so there is no need to isolate. Should your younger one develop symptoms then immediately the whole family has to stay at home and then if the older one has caught it then are isolated before (hopefully) they infect anyone else at school. The virus presumably has to incubate for a few days and although you are infectious before you show symptoms (assuming you show symptoms) that should stop the spread.

My dds school had a case yeasterday, and this is the letter sent out from Dof E as to who should isolate.
Summary - child who was in the class with the positive case isolates, rest of family not. if child develops symptoms, then the rest of family isolates from first day of anyone having symtoms

DfE Letter Advice to All Parents - Single case
Dear Parents and Carers
We have been advised by Public Health England that there has been a confirmed case of
COVID-19 within the school.
We know that you may find this concerning but we are continuing to monitor the situation
and are working closely with Public Health England. This letter is to inform you of the current
situation and provide advice on how to support your child. Please be reassured that for most
people, coronavirus (COVID-19) will be a mild illness.
The small number of children who have been in close contact with the individual who has
tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) have received a letter informing them that their
child must stay at home for 14 days.
The school remains open and your child should continue to attend as normal if they remain
well.
What to do if your child develops symptoms of COVID 19
If your child develops symptoms of COVID-19, they must not come to school and should
remain at home for at least 10 days from the date when their symptoms appeared. Anyone
with symptoms will be eligible for testing and this can be arranged via www.nhs.uk/askfor-a-coronavirus-test or by calling 119.
All other household members who remain well, must stay at home and not leave the house
for 14 days. This includes anyone in your ‘Support Bubble’.
Further information is available at: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-
stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronaviruscovid-19-infection
The 14-day period starts from the day when the first person in the house became ill.
Household members should not go to work, school or public areas and exercise should be
taken within the home.
If you require help with buying groceries, other shopping or picking up medication, or walking
a dog, you should ask friends or family. Alternatively, you can order your shopping online and
medication by phone or online.
Household members staying at home for 14 days will greatly reduce the overall amount of
infection the household could pass on to others in the community
If you are able, move any vulnerable individuals (such as the elderly and those with underlying
health conditions) out of your home, to stay with friends or family for the duration of the home
isolation period.Symptoms
The most common symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19) are recent onset of:
 a new continuous cough
 a high temperature
 a loss of, or change in, your normal sense of taste or smell (anosmia)
For most people, coronavirus (COVID-19) will be a mild illness.
If your child does develop symptoms, you can seek advice from the nhs.uk website at
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/check-if-you-have-coronavirussymptoms/. If you are concerned about your child’s symptoms, or they are worsening you can
seek advice from NHS 111 at 111.nhs.uk/ or by phoning 111.
How to stop COVID-19 spreading
There are things you can do to help reduce the risk of you and anyone you live with getting ill
with COVID-19
Do
 wash your hands with soap and water often – do this for at least 20 seconds
 use hand sanitiser gel if soap and water are not available
 wash your hands as soon as you get home
 cover your mouth and nose with a tissue or your sleeve (not your hands) when you
cough or sneeze
 put used tissues in the bin immediately and wash your hands afterwards
Further Information
Further information is available at www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/

sorry the format doesn't help

this sentence
The school remains open and your child should continue to attend as normal if they remain well.

means UNLESS you have had the letter saying isolate, you should continue to come to school

Thanks everyone.

@FixTheBone that's a really helpful explanation. We've been incredibly cautious since all this began and I'm finding it quite hard to go from taking every possible precaution to expecting two teenagers to sit in a room with 30 others for 2 hours at a time, without social distancing and masks.

It just seems like it's not a case of "if" one of them brings it home from school, it's a case of "when".