Covid, long term risks to younger people - is the government studying this?

[RepeatSwan]

For a long while I have been fretting that whilst young(er) people don't get the acute symptoms, and the respiratory failure, that they could be left with unseen issues.

Last week (I think) an academic was widely reported as saying long covid would be a bigger public health problem than the immediate crisis of the intensive care admissions and deaths.

I read this article www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage and wonder why the government isn't more worried about e.g. students catching it in large numbers?

The bit that made me most was the German study where three-quarters had heart damage only seen on scans. They were average age 49 and had only mild symptoms.

I really want to brush it all off but we just know so little still - does anyone know what the government is doing to study this?

In my very unexpert opinion, I think the government DO know this and that it is for this reason that the rhetoric changed from flatten the curve to the measures we have just now, almost an elimination strategy or at least suppression until we get a vaccine. Its just that they are not telling the public. Maybe because we all got so scared at the start they don't want to scare us again but if this aspect of the disease was more openly discussed maybe there would be more adherence to the rules.

The report states that the British Heart Foundation and Cardiologists around the world, are all studying this. It seems to be the over 50's (which we've known for a while) that have the lingering issues. As all reports say, it's too early to know how long 'long covid' lasts for.

I've got Chronic fatigue and lymph node issues because of a serious illness. Covid isn't the only condition to cause lingering problems. The Cancer charities have been campaigning for years because some people will still be suffering from the effects of cancer and the treatments used, well beyond the recognised year that the government give. Patients who've stopped antibiotics for pneumonia and tb etc aren't supported into full recovery.

Specialists are already saying that they could do more but they aren't being given the resources. We don't fund research in the UK anywhere near enough.

I do think somehow the message it is very mild for young people was absorbed too much?

I think the government need to be more honest with us.

Yes, research is underway www.gov.uk/government/news/research-study-into-long-term-health-impacts-of-covid-19-launched-in-the-uk
New guidelines for treatment www.standard.co.uk/news/health/nhs-to-officially-recognise-long-covid-a4564086.html

@feelingverylazytoday

Thank you, but that top study was for hospitalised patients, whereas the German study, and the American examples are younger people who had only mild symptoms.

In the German study the first evidence of heart damage was the scan done as part of the study, rather than any self-identified symptoms.

I think this is slightly different to 'long covid' which is where covid symptoms can be felt, this is more invisible structural damage?

I feel similar to @PJsEveryday

It's being recognized here
Sorry this one is it's the daily mail

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-54419342

Again, the Mail article says the government is recognising long covid where patients report feeling ill, but are we doing research like the German study to check those who feel like they have no symptoms but have internal damage

OP I have looked. No I don't think there is an active study of long term effects of covid-19 on young people. The Northumbria University cohort (with only about 10% of those who tested positive showing any symptoms) would be an ideal study group for it, but I can't see any grants active for this kind of study.

@janinlondon

OP I have looked. No I don't think there is an active study of long term effects of covid-19 on young people. The Northumbria University cohort (with only about 10% of those who tested positive showing any symptoms) would be an ideal study group for it, but I can't see any grants active for this kind of study.

Thank you.

Yes they would be an excellent cohort, quite a big group.

Maybe someone will apply for funds now.

The report states that the British Heart Foundation and Cardiologists around the world, are all studying this

That's pretty much how reasearch happems. Some organisations sometimes get government grants, but the government isn't the instigator of the actual research.

Cardiac effects in the young, previously healthy people came to the fore when Xander Van Tulleken (TV doctor, who has been in a number of very good programmes on Covid) was broadcast during his cardiac complications (initial treatment worked well, but on drugs and requiring long term follow up).

I remember quite a lot of posts minimising the significance and serioisness of that at a population level.

The important thing we can do (other than take the precautions which minimise spread) is to keep supporting the charities which fund research. Difficult if your household is in straitened times, but something for those who can to think about doing.

Plus write to your MP with your thoughts and ideas about how the government should be supporting medical research. There are so many areas where spending is needed, that MOs need to hear loudly when constituents thing important things are being missed

Why would we need to replicate the German study? Surely it's more efficient for different groups around the world to study different aspects of the disease, rather than all duplicating one another's work.

You always need results to be replicated before you rely on them. It's a very important principle.

www.understandinghealthresearch.org/useful-information/replicability-26

A study of effects on young people would have to have a very different structure from others - most young people are asymptomatic so even recruitment strategy would have to be totally different.

But that doesn't mean the U.K. should be duplicating every study. That's not feasible or desirable.

I agree that this is being underplayed and needs more focus - but it's hard to know whether to trust the German study. It's been heavily criticised - a lot of errors were identified in it. The authors have admitted and corrected them and say it doesn't affect most of their conclusions. But other experts in the field disagree.

www.tctmd.com/news/message-unchanged-say-researchers-criticized-covid-19-cmr-study

I guess these studies will be easier to do now as we get a larger pool of confirmed positive but asymptomatic people? For example if Oxford University is testing weekly they will find good candidates.

Unfortunately most UK university students (who are the perfect cohort) who are in quarantine scenarios have not been tested, and will not be tested.

@RepeatSwan

I guess these studies will be easier to do now as we get a larger pool of confirmed positive but asymptomatic people? For example if Oxford University is testing weekly they will find good candidates.

Screening asymptomatic cases is not going to be an immediate priority though. All resources will be directed to where it's really needed in the acute phase.

Medical "mild" isn't the same as what we would call mild.

Those with "mild" symptoms are very unwell, including pneumonia.

Parliament document that prioritises studying Long COVID among a list of other things. #s 14 & 19 out of 20. I think that means answer to OP is "Yes".

I had what's called mild Covid but was poorly and developed pneumonia. Still have ongoing breathing issues 7 months on. May have damage who knows. Was very fit before.

Announced today by head of NHS England:

Sir Simon said £10m would be invested this year in setting up long-Covid clinics in every area across England, to provide one-stop services for physical and mental health issues.

Patients will have access to assessments for health issues, memory problems or mental health conditions such as depression or anxiety.

They can then be referred to other specialist clinics if required.

He also announced:

clinical guidelines on support for long-Covid patients
an online rehab service called Your Covid Recovery
research on 10,000 patients to better understand the condition
a long-Covid taskforce, to include patients, medical specialists and researchers

www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54449145?__twitter_impression=true

I think it’s really unfortunate that Simon Stevens and the NHS are referring to a condition that just does not exist.

There is no such thing as ‘long COVID’- a very small minority of people do suffer post-viral syndrome. But this is not a new thing- every virus results in a small number of patients suffering after-effects.