What’s our position here?

[HeyMacarona]

DP and I live with 2 adult DS. DS 1 and GF arrive home from a non quarantine country on Wednesday and stay at her place.

They arrive at my house on Thursday and spend some time chatting but mainly in DS room. DS stays home and she goes home.

DS mainly in room until Friday when she arrived again and stays over chatting again with myself and DP and same on Saturday morning until they both leave for her house.

She gets contacted by track and trace on Saturday as she has been in contact with a positive and takes as test. This morning she received a positive result. They are now away from us at her house for a minimum of 2 weeks.

What is the position for myself, DP and DS 2? Are we to self isolate as they are classed as living here or are we close contacts? (I genuinely can’t find the answer to this).

Suggest their manager reads clause 7 here: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1045/made.
Ask the employer for a startement in writing that they will not accept the reasons given for isolation, then provide it to the local authority / HSE.

@HeyMacarona

It says:

”Contacts who need to self-isolate will be notified and advised accordingly by the NHS Test and Trace service. If you have not been notified, this means you do not need to self-isolate“

I’ve not been contacted by track and trace so no it’s not clear.

If she's tested positive then of course you need to isolate, you've spent time with her in your house.

There were 16000 people not track and traced last week. So no you can not rely on being contacted.

Thanks MRex to me that reads in contradiction with published guidelines.

Thankfully one employer has now seen sense and DS is permitted to DI for 2 weeks. Just DPs employer to go.

For anybody else that’s misunderstanding what I’m posting, I’ve never been in confusion about the need to self isolate.

@HeyMacarona - halfway there! The law is the bit they can be prosecuted on. I doubt any company would want to confirm in writing that they know somebody is expected to be contacted by T&T, and that they legally must not prevent the employee from isolating at that point, but are demanding attendance at work while awaiting the call. If they are a large company, HSE or the local authority will be quick to put them straight.
You/DP could call ACAS for other advice if you're not comfortable pushing the issue with them directly. You do not need to be in a union to get ACAS advice: 08004700622.

Giv guidelines state that you must isolate if symptomatic or if contacted by track and trace

That’s it

So no you don’t have to tho legally even tho in ideal world you’d be contacted but as law stands you do not

My work wouldn’t accept word of mouth as contact either

Alicia morally it’s a responsibility but the gov have never said isolate if you are a known contact

They isolate of family member is ill

Isolate if you are contacted by track and trace - that’s it

Have you not seen all the issues with track and trace on the news? I wouldn’t be relying on them to contact me if I knew I had been in a house with a now positive case. A bit of common sense is needed here...!!!!

Don’t children have to self isolate if a contact at school. They don’t get contacted by T&T do they

No good at doing links but here you go

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-contacts-of-people-with-possible-or-confirmed-coronavirus-covid-19-infection-who-do-not-live-with-the-person/guidance-for-contacts-of-people-with-possible-or-confirmed-coronavirus-covid-19-infection-who-do-not-live-with-the-person

The relevant part states

“If you have been informed that you are a contact of a person who has had a positive test result for COVID-19, you must self-isolate at home for 14 days from the date of your last contact with them. You could be fined if you do not stay at home and self-isolate if you are contacted by NHS Test and Trace and instructed to do so.”

The key part is ignoring a request from TT. The official guidance does also state that if you are not contacted by TT you don’t need to SI.

I hope people just use common sense and choose to isolate even if not technically required to do so.

The main issue is with employers accepting your word that you have been exposed to a positive case.

I had never really thought about this issue before but it’s needs addressing pronto.

@HeyMacarona you're right, it's not well-thought through, is it?

I'm sorry people have jumped on you suggesting you're looking for an "angle" to beat the system.

What you're asking was clear to me and I think the request for written confirmation from the employer to attend work (with the reason that DH/DS want to be able to show it to T&T / police if investigated) will mean a U turn by employer.

Hope the rest of you don't come down with it.

@HeyMacarona please read the guidance and the part I highlighted above. It does not say you only have to isolate of informed by test and trace. It says If you have been informed that you are a contact of a person who has had a positive test result for COVID-19, you must self-isolate at home for 14 days from the date of your last contact with them. It can’t be any more clear!

It doesn’t say Test and Trace have to inform you. In your situation the case themselves informed you!!!!

AliciaWhiskers please check your link as it states:

I think I have had contact with someone who has tested positive for COVID-19, but I have not been notified and advised to self-isolate. What should I do?
Contacts who need to self-isolate will be notified and advised accordingly by the NHS Test and Trace service. If you have not been notified, this means you do not need to self-isolate.

And also calm yourself and read my previous messages we are self isolating our problem is with DPs employers.

Thank you ketchupthebear I’m glad someone has understood the point of my thread.

Yes I’m bloody petrified we’ve caught it and would never ever put anyone in danger.

But you don’t think you have had a contact, you KNOW! And you have been notified, by the case.

I don’t know why the employer can’t just read the guideline themselves and realise you are doing the right thing by isolating!

For the last time it’s my DPs employers not me. I’d tell you to take it up with them if I could.

This guidance is not helpful to people who need to isolate.

Employers see it from the POV that unless you’re told to you’re not required to.

Yes, I know it’s DPs employer. That’s why I suggested they read the guideline!

No wonder the country is in such a mess if that’s how employers are acting. It’s not like Test and Trace are on top of everything just now. As I said before it also relies on the case giving the correct information to test and trace. If she doesn’t have contact details for you or your DP, you won’t get a call from them. Do you know if she has given your info to test and trace?

Yes I’ve spoken to her and she thinks it’s purely a timeline issue but that’s just our theory.

DP actually only came into contact with her once due to his work pattern and was less that 15m with 2m distance but he does still live here so may have touched surfaces that she touched.

TT told her that her exposure came from a contact on Thursday last week so when they contacted her on Saturday they may have thought it was unlikely she has spread it to us?

My worry here mainly is that they have not considered they came back from another country on Wednesday last week and personally I think that’s more likely where she has picked it up so would have been contagious around us.

I’m just guessing here. I want this problem under control and if this is the state of affairs we could be waiting some time.

You’ve done your bit letting the employers know and it’s up to them what their rules are. Technically you should all be self isolating but the frustration is that everyone interprets the rules differently.

I know of a distance relative who has tested positive but his close family, who are in and out of his house, are not self isolating and going to work as normal.

In that case if he doesn’t meet criteria for being a close contact he may not be contacted. They will only look to trace contacts with contact of 1m for any length of time or 2m for 15 minutes.

Yes surely it’s possible that she may have acquired Covid independently of being a contact herself? The fact she was a contact should be irrelevant and they should still seek to trace contacts of hers within the appropriate timeframe (48 hours before the start of symptoms or 48 hours prior to the test if she didn’t have symptoms).