Rule of six - sleeping child

[Spaghettio]

I've read that if a child is asleep upstairs they're don't count towards the 6. Is that right? Can anyone paint me towards official guidance about that? I can't seem to find it anywhere.....

I think its fine.its groups of 6 meeting, if you're in a pub there is lots more than 6 people, but everyone is in groups of 6

If you think about it logically, then it is less risky to have 6 adults meet for dinner with children asleep upstairs than for the same 6 adults to meet in a restaurant with a babysitter looking after the children in their home.

The key thing is to reduce the overall number of people meeting and interacting. We could do with strengthening this message and reducing the focus on arbitrary rules and the letter of the law. IMHO.

Last time I was in a friend's ground floor flat, the couple upstairs did indeed come down asking for assistance from the friend.

This isn’t going to be an issue with just flats though, any time someone goes to someone else’s house without checking first you could stumble across issues. I was having a cup of tea with the in laws the other day when another family member popped round unannounced and suddenly there were more than 6 and we had to adjust.

Flats could be an issue depending on how communal spaces are used of course. House shares will also be trouble. Lots of friends have lived in house shares in London where they barely know their four or five other housemates let alone enough to have a conversation planning each other’s visitors. But again, this is only an issue in a shared communal space.

I’m not even sure how “checking on a young child” is a problem here unless all 6 of you do it. One person going upstairs if the child cries is no different to everyone leaving and then checking on them. It all comes back to people being sensible though. The law isn’t going to cover all scenarios (which perhaps it should!).

It’s all a bit ridiculous. My two adult children live at home and both work nights so are currently fast asleep and can be relied upon not to come downstairs. According to the rule of 6, I could have two more people in the house at the moment as both myself and DH are at home. Fast forward to this evening and I could have four extra people as DD and DS have gone to work and those four people could stay for the night providing they leave by the time the children get home.At no point would the children mix with any visitors and this would all be within the letter of the law.

"I am not sure this helps. It's clear that people in different flats can spend an evening without sharing any space. They are also not in the "same place"."

Just as 6 people downstairs can spend an evening without sharing any space with the children upstairs. Most parents know if their children are in the habit of coming downstairs and can plan accordingly.

Children asleep in closed rooms upstairs are no more in the 'same space' as people downstairs than people in a different flat are in the 'same space'.

The law doesn't specifically define "gathering".

As I understand it the government would like everyone in the same home to be considered a gathering, but what the government wants the law to be and what it actually is are two different things.

I wouldn't count them. Otherwise how would blocks of flats go on?

Jesus Christ 🤦🏼‍♀️

@RHTawneyonabus

It's supposed to be six people under the same roof. But rulebreakers look for loopholes everywhere. Government needs to give better descriptions of what a gathering of 6 looks like just so people don't have excuses.

6 means 6, it’s not difficult.

Babies and children count. Asleep or otherwise.

I guess I would count the child but a rule follower when it comes to Covid - anything for a quiet life that’s allows us to continue living while protecting people.

That said, the rule of 6 is annoying and in some cases meaningless. Clearly there is a smaller risk to a family of five meeting a couple than six independent people mixing 🤷‍♀️

Personally I won’t be counting my 4 month old baby...otherwise it’ll just be me and him alone for Christmas 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wish people would stop trying it on.

6 is obvious.

Its six if they're asleep, still six if you close the door, and yes, it's still six if you make them breathe through a closed circuit ventilator or scuba gear.

It’s 6 people in England. If they’re alive, they count.

In Wales, it’s 6 counting everyone over the age of 11. So if you’re in Wales with a 7 year old, they don’t count whether they’re asleep or not.

It’s annoying, it’s most annoying for large families (inc blended families) in England, but that’s the rule they’ve gone with. Where did you read sleeping children don’t count? The sources are pretty important with this kind of stuff as we all know how easy it is to spread fake news or info about anything. Really, it needs to be read off the Gov info as hearing from friends, Facebook, Mumsnet, Daily Fail etc. is never going to be reliable. The info plus exceptions are all listed: www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing

It's 6 people in a gathering, so if your child is sleeping in another room they don't count. Just invite friends over after the kids have gone to bed.

The “6 means 6” people are so annoying. If we are going to be that black and white then no they don’t count because they’re not gathering with anyone. 6 means 6. 6 people are allowed to gather together. If your children aren’t gathering with anyone than they’re not in the 6.

No one is looking for loopholes. If people were they’d hardly be looking for input and advice from others, they’d just get on with it, no?

I wish people would stop trying it on.

6 is obvious.

Its six if they're asleep, still six if you close the door, and yes, it's still six if you make them breathe through a closed circuit ventilator or scuba gear.

I disagree, actually. I don't think it's obvious at all.

I have researched this for work purposes, in order to give appropriate guidance to others. I have no vested interest in finding loopholes or in "trying it on" because I am in a vulnerable category myself, and am neither going in to other people's houses nor inviting anyone in to mine. I do not believe that the government guidance is clear.

This was done to death on another thread here recently too.

A few lawyers on the thread explained that the legislation defines gathering as two or more people in the same place with the intention to interact (paraphrasing, the main section is attached - hopefully), and therefore, in their opinion, you'd be very unlikely to be found to be in breach of the law with children asleep upstairs.

Nevertheless you'll no doubt get the usual pile on here "it's obvious" "six means six" etc.

Legally you are probably fine but MN will judge you!

It's always the 7th person that has the virus 🧐

I wouldn’t count sleeping children on a different floor because they aren’t part of the gathering.

*I’m not even sure how “checking on a young child” is a problem here unless all 6 of you do it

Young children count just the same as adults do so it would count as "mingling" which is now illegal to do from a group of six.

No it's 6

And realistically child might wake up and you wouldn't make one of the guests go outside so you could bring the child downstairs

Are we allowed 7 people in our house in different rooms? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4033038-are-we-allowed-7-people-in-our-house-in-different-rooms

Discussed at great length on this thread.

Six people in the house = six people regardless of whether they are asleep or in other rooms.

It's done me a favour, everytime my son brings his girlfriend round I have to go to the pub to get the number back to six again.

as for the rule clearly morally meant to be six in the house but legally/ technically could well be 6 actually gathering, either way Boris simplifiying things in this case hasn't worked because it's 50/50 on how people are interpreting it.

It's all rediculous. I won't cost sleeping kids. I went to see friends in London at weekend. Just so happened we stayed in rule of six as people were coming and going. But l saw 11 different people that night...why did it matter if we did it in shifts.