UK obsession with 3 Symptoms

[SLAW70s]

Anyone else utterly infuriated by the UK’s obsession with fever, cough and loss of taste/smell.

I believe that this may be contributing significantly to the failure of many to isolate and test when needed.

Compare UK / NHS guidance to CDC guidance (sorry can’t do a link):
*Watch for symptoms

People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea
This list does not include all possible symptoms. CDC will continue to update this list as we learn more about COVID-19*

Anyone care to summarise/ link to symptom lists from other countries? ( With translation if needed!)

What do others think?

How often do people get sore throats normally? Am I an anomaly in that I only get a sore throat a couple of times a year, and that's usually accompanied by other cold like symptoms (often including a cough).

I do get headaches though. Regular as clockwork, every 4 weeks, 2 days before my period. But if testing was quick and easy that wouldn't be much of a problem. Start with a headache during the day, book a test for that afternoon, have the results by the morning. At most I'd miss one day of work if I woke up with the headache. So is the testing system was good and robust, then people wouldn't be missing work all the time, we'd be able to access tests without needing to miss much work (if any).

I get sore throats all the time. Sometimes a precursor to a bug but sometimes not. I think it might be a consequence of spending so much of my working life working on phones. I’ve always been prone to them.

I also get sore throats a lot! Partly because I have chronic sinus problems/post nasal drip - also makes me cough! - and partly because I’m a lecturer, so spend my working days talking non stop, projecting my voice.

I get migraines too, usually just before my period, sometimes linked to heavy screen use.

I think the key is if it is not normal for you. My DP has never had a migraine, so if he did, it would be cause for alarm. My colleague coughs constantly at this time of year because of her asthma. It is normal for her, and happens when the seasons change, increased central heating etc.(i guess in theory she could have Covid on top.)

I recently had a procedure scheduled at the hospital and had to have a Covid test 72 hrs prior.

The day before the Covid test I came down with a real sore throat! Great I thought, absolutely sure somehow I’d get a positive Covid test. It was negative. The sore throat came to nothing and within 72 hrs was just a tickle feeling throat.

If there were far more symptoms to get tested by, those who really do need to test wouldn’t manage to get one, that’s happening anyway but it would be even worse.

So with my experience I absolutely think the three main symptoms are the ones we should stick by.

Oh and I don’t get sore throats often.

@OpheliasCrayon

Irs hard enough to get tests as it is and for them to come back in a reasonable amount of time. You're suggesting that you'd get a test for pretty much any symptom of any illness - the testing capacity can't cope as it is - any more symptoms added would I imagine, make it next to impossible to get tests

No, it can’t. Which is also the point. It should be able to. What the fuck have they been doing since !arch, when we knew we would need robust testing for a disease which has a whole load of symptoms which are also symptoms of other illnesses.

@EmmaWithTheGreatHair If there were far more symptoms to get tested by, those who really do need to test wouldn’t manage to get one, that’s happening anyway but it would be even worse
Only if the testing system is, and remains, crap. Why aren’t you demanding better?

The trouble is that we will need another lock down now. If they had properly got the track and trace up and running when cases were down during the last lock down, plus quick testing and results, our numbers would be small enough still that we could expand the symptoms we test for.

Other countries are managing it! Ours just is a bit shit. It doesn't have to be this way. When I talk to friends in Canada I am just amazed by how much more organised and under control it all is there.

@Tomatoesneedtoripen

I trust Professor Whitty's advice.

Sure, but he's been very clear that we need quick testing (it isn't) and an effective track and trace system (it isn't). It's hardly his fault but very little of his advice is actually making it through to the (cough) "strategy".

Yes, Zoe application does point out that there are more symptoms. It also claims that by testing people with three main symptoms we should pick up 85% of all symptomatic infections.

The reality is we have got to draw a line somewhere. Yes, the most common symptom of COVID is headache. However, only 1% of all people with headaches actually have COVID. We cannot test all of them.

We have got to maximise the "hit rate" within the testing capacity we have got available (which is in fact pretty large). The current approach sounds like the most pragmatic solution based on all available research.

The BJ government is obsessed with things in 3s since success of the whole "Take Back Control" slogan during the Brexit campaign. It's why BJ's election slogan was Get Brexit Done and why all the government Covid guidance comes with a 3 word headline (Hands/Face/Space anyone?). They don't think the public has the mental capacity to handle anything with more than 3 points.

Tbh I am starting to wonder if the public has the mental capacity to even handle 3 points.

(Although you are completely right about the rule of three. My son had a very interesting BBC Bitesize lesson about this in lockdown)

They don't think the public has the mental capacity to handle anything with more than 3 points

Don’t think some people can understand just 3 points

Totally agree. I know of schools where if staff and children don't have a temperature, it's not covid so they are not ill and therefore should be in work/ school.

If you do have a temperature, but no continuous cough, then it's not covid so you're allowed time to recover at home but must return as soon as your temperature goes down. No test needed.

Schools are making up their own rules.

@cardibach I'm not saying we shouldn't be testing for all possible symptoms... I mean I would imagine th more things we can test for the better but as you say - the system can't cope now so adding more symptoms isn't going to happen. Fuck knows what they were doing over summer. Because it seems to have come to a surprise to noone other than the people in charge that cases would go up when the schools and unis went back.....

@RingPiece

Totally agree. I know of schools where if staff and children don't have a temperature, it's not covid so they are not ill and therefore should be in work/ school.

If you do have a temperature, but no continuous cough, then it's not covid so you're allowed time to recover at home but must return as soon as your temperature goes down. No test needed.

Schools are making up their own rules.

Schools can’t tell anyone not to test. I mean, they can tell them, but there’s no reason for anyone to listen. I’d have a test.

@wintertravel1980 the capacity is quite large, yes. We never actually test as many as we have alleged ‘capacity’ for though, because other parts of the system, like actually running the tests, fall down - mainly because they’ve insisted on using small private labs instead of universities etc.

Schools can’t tell anyone not to test. I mean, they can tell them, but there’s no reason for anyone to listen. I’d have a test.
I agree, Cardibach I would too.

However, teachers are put under pressure to have little or no time off, now more so than ever. There is worry about the repercussions of having to have time off waiting for test results. Parents are wanting their children to be in school, and waiting at home for results means they're unable to go to work. Schools know this and are using it to their advantage. They need teachers in. They need children in.

My concern is that if you dont get tested quickly enough then the results are not reliable. Which in the case of my Husband who had general cold symptoms for 5days before developing a cough and shortness of breath, means that he has tested negative, despite Dr at the Covid hub and GP being convinced that he is infected upon examination and advised him to disregard if result was negative. If not for going to be examined because of his asthma, he would have taken the negative result and carried on going out, to work etc. potentially infecting countless others.

I myself have had shortness of breath, pain in my back, chest tightness and lightheadedness upon any mild physical effort since Sunday, but no other symptoms so not eligible for testing. The start of a cough perhaps starting today (6 days in), but I've no confidence i'd get a reliable result if testing now.

We never actually test as many as we have alleged ‘capacity’ for though, because other parts of the system, like actually running the tests.

Right now we are running somewhere between 190,000 to 240,000 Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 tests a day which is actually quite impressive.

The number of people will, of course, be lower but it is still a high figure.

Experience of other countries (e.g. Germany/Bavaria) shows that whenever you offer testing to anyone who wants it, you very quickly run out of capacity. We have to have some sort of filtering mechanism to make sure tests are allocated to those who need it the most.

As I mentioned, people with 3 symptoms seem to account for 85% of all symptomatic infections. It therefore appears an entirely "fit for purpose" filtering decision.

I heard at some point that they count each test as two tests (one for nose, one for throat). Is this true?
Another issue with only testing for three symptoms is that someone who has say fatigue, headache and sore throat may lie about additional symptoms to enable them to get a test...thereby skewing the true percentage of people who have one of the three symptoms.

I heard at some point that they count each test as two tests (one for nose, one for throat). Is this true?

No, it is an urban/internet legend. From the government dashboard:

All tests in pillar 1 are counted at the point they are processed by a lab. Nose and throat swabs are counted together as one sample.

Tests in pillars 2 and 4 are administered in 2 different ways and therefore fall into 2 categories, those that are counted when they are dispatched and those that are counted when they are processed by a lab. As in pillar 1, pillar 2 nose and throat swabs are counted together as one sample.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-data-methodology/covid-19-testing-data-methodology-note

@PennyCrayon85

I have a runny nose and a sore throat this weekend. I feel crap. No Covid symptoms though. My (highly anxious) friend is going off her nut at me because she feels I should have a test. I just 🤷🏻‍♀️

Please tell me you're isolating!

We only have 3 symptoms as they are the most common and our test and trace system is a shambles. If we had enough for everyone, you'd be testing and isolating too. Heck, we'd be constantly doing it. Hoping this spit test they're working on works out!

Scottish clinical director recently was very clear that a runny nose is not Covid.

[quote wintertravel1980]I heard at some point that they count each test as two tests (one for nose, one for throat). Is this true?

No, it is an urban/internet legend. From the government dashboard:

All tests in pillar 1 are counted at the point they are processed by a lab. Nose and throat swabs are counted together as one sample.

Tests in pillars 2 and 4 are administered in 2 different ways and therefore fall into 2 categories, those that are counted when they are dispatched and those that are counted when they are processed by a lab. As in pillar 1, pillar 2 nose and throat swabs are counted together as one sample.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-data-methodology/covid-19-testing-data-methodology-note[/quote]
Thanks for clarifying.

@MadameBlobby

Scottish clinical director recently was very clear that a runny nose is not Covid.

JUST a runny nose.

A runny or blocked nose/nasal congestion is a common covid symptom, but usually with one of the main 3 symptoms. If you have one of the three main symptoms you need to test or isolate even if you also have other symptoms.