Is airborne/aerosol transmission real? Case cluster shows it could be

[YellowWave]

There was some things before in the news or mainly online about the covid19 being airborne but I don't think there was any definite results or studies done on this. So far it's all a bit open and up in the air.

I'm going to share a covid case cluster. The Irish health authorities shared this cluster of cases in recent days:

www.irishtimes.com/news/health/how-one-couple-s-weekend-away-resulted-in-30-covid-19-cases-1.4368824

A couple who were infected with coronavirus, went to a house party and and had some social gatherings. They went on to dinner in a restaurant and then onto a pub. A lot of information is contained there in the article linked to above.

The Irish health authorities or the group set up to deal with this infectious disease is called Nhpet - national health and Public emergency team or something like that.

NPHET did not share more information about this covid case cluster like if the couple were showing symptoms of the virus and were coughing and expelling infectious fluids. They did not say if the couple knew they were covid positives before attending gatherings and spreading the virus. I think from some other sources, it said the couple came back from abroad. By right they should have be quarantining.

Something big jumps out at me in this article and it's people at a nearby table to the couple, they all became infected from this couple. Also 4 staff members also became infected. I think from this article they also went onto a pub where more people became and more staff from the pub became infected.

This is huge.

Either this couple were showing symptoms and didn't isolate themselves infecting people all around them.
Or the staff in two premises were not displaying good hygiene practices and there was a lot of cross contaminations going on. Also in relation to the staff, usually a staffs interaction with people is very short and limited. They are not sitting for a prolonged period of time at a table nearby for example. Show a couple to their table. Give some menus. Take an order. Serve food. Clear away plates. Pay for meal. So usually its short interactions between staff and customers.

Or the virus is airborne and people because infected just by being in the same room as an infectious couple. Which is very scary to me.

It’s definitely airborne. I thought this was established science & common knowledge now? We’ve been late in the west to acknowledge it but CDC, SAGE, Chris Whitty etc all recognise airborne transmission. You need to wear mask whenever inside crowded poorly ventilated space.
Only the UK’s department for education fails to recognise this, hence the hygiene theatrics around sanitising door knobs but no mandate to wear masks in classrooms.

This is not new news.

It can become airborne but is more usually spread by droplets.

I kind of took it as a given it was airborne tbh. I think the actual science proving that may take time to follow but that’s the logic behind a lot of our restrictions isn’t it?

It can survive in the air for about sixteen hours. That’s why ventilation is so important and why my daughters school keep all their windows open.
It’s also why I won’t sit in a pub anytime soon!

Air conditioning with no filtering systems spread it, as do fans/fan heaters

but that’s the logic behind a lot of our restrictions isn’t it?

No, all our restrictions are geared towards preventing droplet and fomite spread.

If it was airborne generally there would be no point in 2m distancing, no point in masks (you'd need full ICU style PPE) and no point trying to trace close contacts.

Close contact tracing would still be worthwhile - airborne doesn't mean it travels for miles, does it?

Perhaps different accents and voices mean some people are more likely to create truly airborne viral particles. Singsong accents, those with trilly voices, the way people laugh (think Mary Poppins) could all impact on it. Most people don't even transmit it to their whole household. And yet some people infect 100 plus.
Perhaps we should ban talking in person and only allow communication by phone or text.

I never knew this was airborne. I read about it online that there's a possibility of it being airborne. I suppose I was quick to dismiss it thinking droplet infection.

I'm kicking myself so much. I followed the guidelines so much for months and months and reduced socialising and close contacts. I did it to keep myself and all around me in my circle - as safe as possible - myself, family, partner, work.

I attended a function nearly 2 weeks ago. It was a small function of 25 people. I am super aware of this virus and hygiene measures etc. There was no one at my table or tables nearby coughing or sneezing. I'm disgusted at learning that I could have put myself and others at risk now.

I ate many times since July but it was timed and planned. Me and the partner went at quite times. Sometimes we had a complete restaurant and hotel to ourselves except for a member of staff. Other times there might have been a more people about but generally quite. I was so careful for months.

It is airborne but not floating around in little clouds ready to get you if you go into your garden.

It is airborne in that if people breathe etc they are breathing it out and if you then breathe in that same air you could catch it. That is why you are less likely to catch it outdoors (although its still possible)

Janice from friends comes to mind.

I think everyone it agrees it CAN become airborne, the question is how often this happens and how much airborne transmission actually contributes to the spread, and it seems to be so far that in the whole it remains a smaller contributor than droplet transmission.

Old news. The Chinese told us this early on, and it’s been demonstrated in case studies time and time again.

Wear your mask.

Why isn't there more ignformation from our governments and health authorities about this being airborne and about aerosol transmissions? It really does make schools a place for infections and transmissions. All it takes is one infected person and maybe another cold person who would prefer to have windows closed.

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/

Someone posted this article in another thread and I found it very interesting. It talks about our focus on the R0 but not the k variable and the way some people are spreading the virus to lots of other people while others don’t spread it to anyone else, among a lot of other things. Definitely worth a read

Back in March the reports were that it could be airborne for somewhere between 8 and 30 mins before dropping to the ground, although I saw in the news this week a study beginning (that I think might be Bristol Uni), trying to establish something more conclusive around this.

With the restaurant, even though the staff may have had only small, brief interactions, I suppose the idea is that by walking through any airborne virus repeatedly, the load was significant enough, but it's also possible that they cleared the plates and table in a way that led to infection from 'dropped' virus. Maybe a mixture of both.

I looked to see if there was anything clear about the distance between tables and if they were following the rules there strictly - that would be helpful to know, maybe distancing needs to be greater than they were in this establishment. Really hard for restaurants, I do appreciate this.

I know this isn't really the point, but looking at that graphic, it does really make me think that people should just do ... less. So by all means go out and have fun, because it's really hard not to, but maybe don't go to a party, and a restaurant, and a bar, and then another food place the next day.

Of course it can be airborne. I don't mind a quick dash around a quiet supermarket in a mask, but I won't go to a restaurant.

Janice from Friends .

It's absolutely can be airborne and I started a thread saying this back in April.

There were similar cases being publicised back then in Singapore and Korea. A case on a bus where an asymptomatic covid infected passenger infected half the bus.

Then another case at a restaurant where an asymptomatic carrier infected a significant number of people in the restaurant, some of whom were quite a few tables away. With this case they thought the air conditioning played a part as they tracked the current of the air con and every infected person was in the air con path but people out of the air con current even though they were closer weren't infected.

Yes @biarritzcrackers a lab near Bristol is working on airborne transmission from this week.

Megletthesecond - when are they going to have results from this study ready?

Ladycatlin

Thank you for sharing this link. Its a long read but it's a good one. There's a lot of potential in that piece.