Why doesn't she have to isolate?

[tinydancerss]

My friend works for a well known bank.
One of her colleagues has tested positive for covid after loosing his taste /smell.
She sits next to him.
Last time she seen him was last Friday and he phoned in sick Tuesday and got positive result yesterday.
The bank is still open,no staff need to isolate as they have been told by manager
"Every month the bank is sprayed and if Covid touches anything it dies instantly and it lasts a month"
Bullshit ?
If a member of staff from a pub /restaurant tests positive it closes and customers may need to isolate.
Does anyone know why a bank doesn't follow the same rules ?
I'm confused (not trying to start a argument just a genuinely confused lady )

This was the same for me in healthcare.

It's normally only the 2 days before symptoms start: it sounds like this was longer then that?

The stuff about the bank spraying everything with some magic substance sounds like bullshit. But if it was more than 48 hours between your friend seeing this man and him developing symptoms, she doesn't have to isolate, I think.

She really does need to isolate. He’s talking complete bullshit. It’s the sitting next to them and breathing it in, unless you’re wearing a full hospital grade PPE mask she needs to isolate. She should have been told that by track and trace. I would ask her to get her manage to put it in writing. He’s probably swanning around not washing his hands thinking it’s fine.

I believe (not 100% sure) you can only spread for 48 hours before becoming symptomatic so if he became ill on Tuesday only people that saw him from Sunday onwards need to isolate

@SockQueen I thought the same.
If this magic substance exists why isn't everywhere using it?

The worrying thing is the guy was in work Monday (the bank now shuts on Saturday and friend was off Monday ) so you think some staff would need to isolate.
It's barmy

In theory, if they were social distancing then I guess that's their argument?

On the other hand, I'm a nurse and one of our staff had to isolate for 2 weeks because the covid app said the pub she had been in a couple of days before had a customer there near or around the same time as her and he tested positive.

So it seems a little extreme on one hand but not the other.

it'll be the 48 hour rule.

There was a similar rule at a school where a student tested positive on a Monday (they weren't in school) and only they had to SI.

You are typically infectious for about 2 days before the onset of symptoms. She didn't see him during that time, so no need for her to isolate, nor any colleagues if the last time he was in was a clear 3 days before becoming symptomatic

Fomites will have dissipated after that amount of time too.

At least she hasn’t seen him since Friday. But yes she needs to isolate another week. Quite disturbing what she’s being told though.

Although actually if he was only ill on tuesday then I guess she’s ok.

If. no one is being asked to SI, it sounds like they're not following the rules, but fir your friend, I think if she hadn't been in contact with him for 48 hours before his symptoms started then she doesn't need to.

Seems madness you me though, if I was in charge I'd be much more cautious!!

Its not just her manager that is making it up as they go along.

Perhaps these 'covid secure' environments mean you don't have to isolate?

I remember reading something about workplaces that were covid secure not having to ask staff to isolate post contact.

But we all know of incidents where whole factories are closed, school year groups, whole schools, and many restaurants that have closed. All of these environments are meant to have made the environment covid secure. We were told that if masks were worn and SD followed then no need to isolate.......except people are now being told to do so.

I have some sympathy with the manager. Not only is the guidance confusing, changing constantly, and mostly without regard to scientific knowledge, the guidance is not enforced consistently.

There is not a 100% infection rate from anyone with covid to everyone they know. Only people who were with him in the 48 hours infective period before symptoms need to isolate. Depends how closely they sit together as well, if someone was sat 5m away then they may not have been asked to isolate. Cleaning practices aren't related to this, special deep cleaning is usually only required after an outbreak of multiple people. Test and trace will make the decision, not her manager, so he can do is decide to send more people home. It's probably best not to worry too much with second-guessing if you aren't involved yourself, let her follow up if she's concerned.

Sorry, slow typing and hadn't seen OP's update when I posted.

Anyone who was in close contact with him on Monday should perhaps be asked to self-isolate.

Has the branch taken advice on this? An employer as large as one of the bigger banks will be able to tell branches what needs to be done (in-house or contracted expertise probably - and isn't PHE available to employers too? I know they're doing schools

“If you think you've been in contact with someone who has coronavirus, but you do not have symptoms and have not been told to self-isolate*, continue to follow social distancing advice.”
*not been told to self-isolate by Track & Trace or the Covid APP

the above from the NHS website, so no she doesn’t have to self isolate.

But the surfaces magic substance thing is crap, surely?

@SexTrainGlue

You are typically infectious for about 2 days before the onset of symptoms. She didn't see him during that time, so no need for her to isolate, nor any colleagues if the last time he was in was a clear 3 days before becoming symptomatic

Fomites will have dissipated after that amount of time too.

I dont doubt that people are infectious only up to 48 hrs before symptoms. However i think the experience of feeling unwell is subjective. I've known people carry on as normal having only just vomited. They feel ok, but if that were me I'd be wiped out for a day. One person may feel exactly like another if we had an objective way of comparing how they feel, except we don't.

That’s definitely bullshit. If that existed all the schools would be using it and not having bubbles isolating every five minutes

There is a mist fogging machine seen it used in hotels which in conjunction with regular cleaning covers any missed or hard to reach areas

Well I got this text from the app yesterday and when I clicked into it there was nothing.
So have I been into contact with someone ?

The magic substance lol.

This is also happening in dds school. Idk how but bubbles haven’t burst. Apparently stringent measures in place etc. When in reality these are not being adhered to, lots of kids not wearing masks in corridors, buses etc. I’ve just had abdominal surgery. Dd returned this morning after isolating a few days before and a week after. I’m concerned.

Yes. This is happening in educational settings too... just a couple of people who were sat immediately next to the covid positive person told to isolate?
It seems mad doesn’t it when we think back to early this year when potential covid cases meant full hazmat suits, whole buildings closed etc etc?
It makes no sense whatsoever because the school kids are taking public transport together, mixing in local shops after school, using the same rooms/ corridors and so on?

Maybe there are some specific criteria about "contact risk cases" that you aren't aware of? The rules here in France are very specific. To be a "contact case" you have to have been:

not wearing masks (both of you)
facing each other, less than 1m apart, talking etc
indoors
for a minimum of 15 minutes

And the interaction has to have happened in the 48 hours prior to the positive case getting symptoms (if they get any).

Any interactions that don't meet these criteria are not considered "contact case".

eg. I was identified as a contact case to my colleague as we ate lunch facing each other, across a table, no masks, while having a chat. He tested positive a day or two later (and I caught it too!). But the other people sitting with us at the time were not considered contact cases - they were not sitting opposite or directly facing him etc.

@MiniTheMinx in the main children in school classes (primary), and year groups (secondary) are not SD. So a class is not Covid secure for the pupils. Although should be for the teacher as they SD from the pupils.

So we have not been told schools are Covid secure as such, and for that reason while year groups may have to isolate. Far from ideal, but a workable solution seems impossible.