Flu jab - can it make Covid worse?

[Janevaljane]

I'm booked to have mine today privately. I had awful flu in February and felt crap for weeks after. Would rather avoid it.

But I've been a bit worried by reports on the Internet that having the jab can make Covid worse?

Please someone reassure me that this is anti vaxx propaganda!!

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

This was published pre-Covid 19 but showed that the flu jab increased the likelihood of contracting and becoming more seriously ill from corona viruses.

As far as I can tell that article isn't saying that.

There are a lot of nasty viruses about that can make you very ill or kill you, and the flu jab offers some protection against flu, parainfluenza, and RSV and some other viral co-infections.

It also seems common sense that catching Covid and flu is even worse news than just catching Covid.

So, overall, my vote goes for having the flu jab. If you can get it.

I don't think the Government would be advertising the flu vaccine particularly for the vulnerable if it made covid worse.

I'm now thinking that along with masks, hand washing and social distancing maybe I'll avoid flu anyway.

I'm not sure that the govt knows exactly what its doing tbh charli

www.factcheck.org/2020/04/no-evidence-that-flu-shot-increases-risk-of-covid-19/

@Shingles443

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

This was published pre-Covid 19 but showed that the flu jab increased the likelihood of contracting and becoming more seriously ill from corona viruses.

Correlation or causation?

Keeping in mind that those funded for free flu jabs (and therefore more likely to have them) are already identified as medically vulnerable).

Also www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7437565/

@PicsInRed It's an anti-vaxxer campaign and highlights the perils of getting one's healthcare information from social media.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7437565/

In the light of the emergence of the coronavirus Sars-CoV-2, the Wolff article has been artfully manipulated by the anti-vaxxer community as an argument against influenza vaccination. As pointed out by GG Wolff himself in a recent letter [2], the study concerned the 2017–18 winter season, and the reported results have nothing to do with the novel Sars-CoV-2 virus, but represent four endemic coronavirus strains regularly circulating in the US. In addition, Wolff’s study was observational (not experimental) in nature, used a crude odds ratio, and, while focusing on influenza, it was also extended to several non-influenza respiratory viruses, some of which were significantly more (coronavirus and human metapneumovirus) or less (parainfluenza and respiratory syncytial virus) often detected among influenza vaccinees. These results remain largely unexplained, could have age confounding effects, and the author could not find any evidence to support the hypothesis of viral interference as a possible explanation. While further research on this topic should be encouraged, it is vital to reiterate that the results of Wolff’s paper do not concern the Sars-Cov-2 virus.

We performed a literature review (until 15 June 2020) and found a number of papers that highlight the significant benefits of influenza vaccination in the current COVID-19 pandemic. Skowronski et al. conducted a test-negative design study using historical data (2010–11 to 2016–17) in Canada and found (at odds with Wolff’s findings) no effect of influenza vaccination on the risk of coronaviruses infection [3]. An inverse correlation between influenza vaccine coverage and COVID-19 mortality emerged in an ecological study analyzing data from thirty-four countries worldwide [4]. Jehi et al. developed and validated a COVID-19 infection prediction model, in which influenza vaccinees had a reduced COVID-19 infection risk [5]. Finally, a modelling paper by Li et al. concluded that “increasing influenza vaccine uptake […] would facilitate the management of respiratory outbreaks coinciding with the peak flu season”, thus allowing a more efficient use of healthcare resources [6].

I believe they are recommending that people with long Covid don't get the injection if they are experiencing temperatures/ fever. Came up on Proffesor Trisha Greenhalgh's Twitter

I think the rest of us should get vaccinated if possible.

@quiteathome What is long COVID? And aren't you always advised not to get a vaccination if you've got an active fever or high temperature, regardless of what the vaccination is (even if we disregard the don't-leave-the-house-if-you've-got-COVID-symptoms guidance)?

@Shingles443

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

This was published pre-Covid 19 but showed that the flu jab increased the likelihood of contracting and becoming more seriously ill from corona viruses.

That article does NOT show that the flu jab increased the likelihood of contracting and becoming more seriously ill from corona viruses.

It is an investigation into the phenomenon of viral interference, when infection with one virus limits the ability of a second virus to infect and replicate within cells, so effectively one virus giving resistance to another virus. It is looking whether vaccination against flu gives protection against other viruses too (it found it did) or whether it increases the risk of catching some respiratory viruses because the second virus is not competing with flu virus. It found that there was a slightly higher risk of infection with the coronaviruses THAT CAUSE THE COMMON COLD. It was not looking at SARS-CoV-2 or the other viruses from the same sub genus that cause SARS and MERS.

It did NOT look at whether the flu vaccine caused people to become more seriously ill when infected by other respiratory viruses. It is known that some vaccines can result in infections from other viruses being more serious so that paper did raise the valid question whether that could be the case with the flu vaccine and COVID-19. However, there is no evidence that it does.

There is absolutely no evidence at the moment to suggest that the flu vaccine increases the risk of contracting or becoming more seriously ill from COVID-19. However, there is evidence that coinfection (having both at the same time) with influenza and COVID-19 DOUBLES the RISK of death:

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3720

@FourPlasticRings Long COVID is when people remain infected with the virus and have symptoms for many months.

I haven't heard that - but would be interested to know if it is true?

[quote orangenasturtium]@FourPlasticRings Long COVID is when people remain infected with the virus and have symptoms for many months.[/quote]
Long Covid is typically the damage to the body from its own immune system going crazy. When a cell is infected with virus the immune system essentially blows it up. This leaves a lot of inflammation and damage to structures, especially in certain people with a huge immune response.

Typically Covid patients die or get long term issues due to all the tissue and organ damage cause by the immune response. This is why they are using immunosuppressants as treatment.

You don't have to still have the virus to have "long covid". The fatigue is largely because the body is repairing itself after all the damage, in the same way you get fatigue after major surgery or radiotherapy.

It's all academic anyway as they have cancelled it

Following

However, there is apparently an increased risk of death if suffering from flu and covid at the same time. So I would definitely suggest its a good idea to have the flu jab
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-people-co-infected-with-flu-and-covid-19-have-far-greater-risk-of-death-12078402