Everyone complaining but what is the actual answer !

[Someonetakemebackto91]

I know personally I have just decided to do what’s best for my family as we know we can’t rely on Everyone else because everyone has their own lives / worries etc
However no matter what people are complaining.
Face masks, small restrictions , large restrictions, no face masks, economy, lives but what actually is it people want.
I am so confused by it all now 🤣
What would your tactics be if you could have a say ?

In the 1980s we didn't deal with the AIDS crisis by banning sex and locking up all the drug addicts, we dealt with it by making sure everyone had access to condoms and clean needles. And by making sure everyone had the necessary knowledge to keep themselves safe and to prevent transmission.

And we managed to do this under Thatcher FFS!

@Pixxie7

LangClegsInSpace@ AIDS was entirely different it Isn’t airborne but caused the transfer of bodily fluids. It also wasn’t a pandemic people could choose to avoid risky behaviour on the whole.

Of course AIDS was different. Every public health crisis is different.

Nevertheless, every successful public health intervention starts with meeting the public where they are at and doing what you can to build public trust. Can you explain why you think we should instead criminalise people and destroy trust in this public health crisis?

AIDS continues to kill almost 1M people around the world every year, predominantly in low and middle income countries. More than half of people living with HIV in the world today are women and girls. What do you know about the choices those women and girls have to 'avoid risky behaviour on the whole'?

I wanted the Swedish strategy

What, the utter scandal of keeping everything up and running for the sake of economy, and killing off their old and vulnerable? Bet your mum is proud.

I've just started watching lots of "fall decor"videos on YouTube & I'm quickly becoming addicted.
They all seem to be American women and they decorate their homes beautifully for the Autumn.
Feeling inspired & think I may plan a trip to Tk macs.
Anyone else decorate their home for the Autumn?

@Pixxie7

Not popular I know but the elderly and vulnerable should make a choice whether they want to stay at home or risk getting the virus. Commission large spaces for schools and universities. People work at home if possible the rest should take protective measures but continue as normal as possible.

Risk getting the virus and no guarantee of treatment if hospitals are overwhelmed?

And no I don't decorate my home for autumn. It's all I can do to pick up the leaves that come through the skylight when it's windy

3 groups of people.

Group A, ecv, shielding.

Group B, look after group A, will mean them effectively shielding as well but they will be well paid.

Group C, carry on with life, work, study, whatever. If cases get to stage where NHS looks like its overwhelmed, scale back with pubs closing, extended school holidays (so 3 weeks at a time on an as needed basis rather than the fixed terms we currently have).

It won't be possible but if it were its a way for the majority to be normal and most importantly the economy to be normal.

@Meuniere

I disagree about ‘the population not compliant enough for T&T’. That’s whAat. The government wants you to think instead

T&T is a shamble because it isn’t set up properly. Plenty of countries to copy from tbh.
People staying at home is easily checked. When it will be clear that they are checking AND it costs money if you don’t, people will be more careful. Just like many other countries have done..

How are people going to be tracked if they don't have mobile phones? I haven't.

@Frouby it’s so hard though it wouldn’t work.
We would be group A but that also unfortunately means we have to spend a lot of time going to the hospital which isn’t avoidable. If the virus is running rife then shielding would be pointless when having to access health care etc.

LangClegsInSpace@ not looking for an argument I did say on the whole, I was just pointing out why the handling Covid is different. I appreciate that their are innocent victims.

Open the modern equivalent of the old TB hospitals, miles from anywhere, treat Covid in the same way they used to treat TB & Scarlet Fever, anyone who tests positive goes there until they test negative, staff are the first ones to receive the vaccine when it comes out. Then area by area, everyone is vaccinated, no question of not being vaccinated, like they did for polio, as each area is done, give the area a reasonable time for the vaccine to take, then unlock that area but only to residents, as more of the country is vaccinated, more of the country opens up. Have vaccination stands at all airports & ferry terminals, nobody enters who isn't vaccinated, maybe a worldwide stamp on a passport to prove vaccination. It needs an approach like they would take for things like ebola or bubonic plague until the virus is eliminated.

You would have your own hospitals/medical team, staffed by people from Group B who may also be ECV. That's what Group B is.

It won't ever work because the government won't invest millions of pounds for the ECV, its probably the most expensive group if people to keep alive at the best of times and probably contribute the least economically.

But if money was no object That's what I would do.

langclegsinspace

In the 1980s we didn't deal with the AIDS crisis by banning sex and locking up all the drug addicts, we dealt with it by making sure everyone had access to condoms and clean needles. And by making sure everyone had the necessary knowledge to keep themselves safe and to prevent transmission.

People don't need the disincentive of huge fines if they fail to isolate, they need proper support - practical and financial - to make it possible. Nobody should be worse off for doing the right thing.
This ^^^

@Gncq

I wanted the Swedish strategy

What, the utter scandal of keeping everything up and running for the sake of economy, and killing off their old and vulnerable? Bet your mum is proud.

MN never fails to shock me. Why would their mum not be proud? And why the need to get so rude and personal? The swedish strategy was not simply leaving everything running. They did make changes they were advised to work from home, unis and secondary schools shut down and so did some businesses.
You mention economy like it was some unimportant thing that shouldnt have been protected. The lives of people are tied in with the economy. Only in the long run will we know how each country fared. Until then , would it be too hard to exchange views and debate respectfully without lowering to personal insults? ( i know it was not addressed to me, but just as a side note- my mum is a nurse, and she would have also preferred most of the elements of the swedish response)

@Marcellemouse

Shielding for over 70s and vulnerable, everyone else get on with it.

What does shielding mean?

They cannot be asked to live in isolation for indefinite periods. If that’s too much for students who are in any case isolated for 2 weeks with lots of peers.

Until and unless this is explained, it’s not a solution just a glib statement.

The closure of a hospital in wales demonstrates why this won’t work. Healthcare will just fall over and there will be no treatment for anything.

@Meuniere

What I would like is consistency. It’s hard for people to think you shouldn’t meet with loved ones at home and have lunch. But you book a table at a restaurant with them.

If I go to visit my elderly mother at her home the risk of infection would be far higher than if we met at a restaurant. We would probably be in a smaller room, many elderly people have warmer and less well ventilated homes, I could use her cutlery and crockery, the table would not be fully sanitised before and after our lunch and there is a higher risk we would hug goodbye as not in public. It's quite obvious why the regulations are there when you think of their aim but the media and too many people are trying to pull it apart

I would do what Sweden has done. If elderly and vulnerable wish to shield they can do so, but they should be given a choice, especially people in care homes.

@Gncq

I wanted the Swedish strategy

What, the utter scandal of keeping everything up and running for the sake of economy, and killing off their old and vulnerable? Bet your mum is proud.

And yet UK has killed off more old and vulnerable even with the lockdown.

Eyewhisker- exactly!

My DD (18) has just had a positive test. She is not poorly and has no symptoms. She is not a risk to anyone- especially once she has observed the 10 days self isolating....which she will. So is it fair to lock her down in her first year of uni with no face-to-face lectures; no societies to join and no opportunity to socialise outside her flat of 5?

We have to adapt a risk based approach, or we endanger our economy and the mental health of the next generation

@ChodeOfChodeBall

Let the virus take its course. Hardly an original suggestion, but it's the one I would go for.

I am inclined to agree with that even though I don't like it.

The virus is actually doing this at the moment anyway, whatever restrictions are in place.

I wonder if this would make a difference

'you have 30 days to get planned, do as much shopping as you can do anything else you can think of etc. then on day 31 everything shuts for 30 days, you will be allowed out for emergency's only one person can do x with shopping'

Alright I have not thought it all through but would help to shut as much does as possible for one month to prevent all the mayhem?

yes there is probably holes in this argument