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Original poster

Member of staff refusing to wear mask!

61 replies

Pickle2828 · 25/09/2020 20:25

Hi, long time mumsnetter but have namechanged to avoid outing.

Background... We have a small family business (a shop) which my dad runs but over the last few years he has been stepping back due to ill-health and I have (reluctantly, as this really isn't my forte) been picking up the managerial responsibilities.

We have a member of staff who has worked for us for a number of years. In her personal opinion the risk of covid is low and she is happy taking risks, she has openly said this, she does not want to comply with guidance and legislation regarding covid. Our expectations as employers have been made clear and she has signed a document which covers covid secure practices in line with government guidance and new legislation. Since the legislation changed on Thursday she will not wear her mask except when a customer walks into our shop. She has been asked by other family members to wear her mask at all times, especially when customers can see her in the shop from outside. She reluctantly complied initially but now it seems cannot be bothered and is being more defiant. This is not by any means the first time she has been defiant or disrespectful, but my dad is a big softie so this has not been addressed.

My problems is

  1. It's breaking the rules
2.We have a responsibility to the general public/our customers to protect them by wearing masks and ensuring our employees do too and non compliance can result in £10,000 fine /closure 3.If she were to pick up covid we would have a much higher chance of catching it from her if she is not wearing a mask (not to mention my dad is in poor health and is clinically vulnerable)

She is not exempt and has never claimed to be.

How do I proceed?

OP posts:
seayork2020 · 25/09/2020 22:33

Is it law?

MadameBlobby · 25/09/2020 22:35

@SavingShoes

Poor woman! Find her a job that isn't customer facing.
Poor woman nothing! She’s an arsehole!
R1R2 · 25/09/2020 22:37

She is refusing to wear PPE her employer has deemed necessary for her to carry out her job, we would remove any individual from our sites immediately if they did not have the correct PPE. If they refused to wear it would lead to a disciplinary and probable dismissal.

Tadpolesandfroglets · 25/09/2020 22:39

Face shields are acceptable as an alternative. We use them in our shop. They are much more comfortable to wear than masks.

LangClegsInSpace · 25/09/2020 22:44

@seayork2020

Is it law?
Yes, the amendment came into force yesterday.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1026/contents/made

vanillandhoney · 25/09/2020 22:47

@Tadpolesandfroglets

Face shields are acceptable as an alternative. We use them in our shop. They are much more comfortable to wear than masks.
Nope.

Shop staff have to wear a mask now. The law changed yesterday.

LangClegsInSpace · 25/09/2020 22:50

I don't know whether shields meet the legal definition of 'face covering' or not:

“face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regulation/2/made

I know they're pretty useless at controlling the virus.

Buggerhell00 · 25/09/2020 22:55

According to this. Staff dont need to wear them if theres a physical barrier between staff and customer. www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
So it isn't all shop staff have to wear mask.

CountreeGurl · 25/09/2020 23:21

Unless she is medically exempt, sack her

Tadpolesandfroglets · 25/09/2020 23:40

@vanillandhoney can you link me to where it says this? We are in England.

Tadpolesandfroglets · 25/09/2020 23:47

All I can find is:
In England, there is currently no official government guidance about whether a visor or face shield can be worn as an alternative to a standard face mask. What's the government's definition of a face covering? "Something which safely covers the nose and mouth". They add: "You may also use a scarf, bandana, religious garment or hand-made cloth covering but these must securely fit round the side of the face." So in all honesty, they're probably not included.

vanillandhoney · 26/09/2020 00:07

[quote Tadpolesandfroglets]@vanillandhoney can you link me to where it says this? We are in England.[/quote]
I can't link as on my phone but the guidance and law changed on Thursday.

Unless there's a physical barrier in between the customer and the staff member, then the staff member must be wearing a mask or covering that fits over the mouth or round the side of the face.

That doesn't describe a visor or shield.

LH1987 · 26/09/2020 00:27

Suspend her and begin disciplinary procedure. This will likely scare her into complying, otherwise, once you go through a disciplinary you can dismiss her easily.

Thisisnotnormal69 · 26/09/2020 00:30

@Tadpolesandfroglets

Face shields are acceptable as an alternative. We use them in our shop. They are much more comfortable to wear than masks.
Yes they’re more comfortable and nowhere near as effective........ great Hmm
MadameBlobby · 26/09/2020 00:43

It doesn’t matter whether it’s the law or not. Plenty of us have to comply with instructions our employers set down or face getting the boot

Tadpolesandfroglets · 26/09/2020 00:45

I know it changed on Thursday. I work in retail. My bosses are buying us all visors because they believe it’s an acceptable alternative. I can’t find anything anywhere saying any different so just wondering where you got this info from.

Smallsteps88 · 26/09/2020 01:05

Since the legislation changed on Thursday she will not wear her mask except when a customer walks into our shop. She has been asked by other family members to wear her mask at all times, especially when customers can see her in the shop from outside.

Sounds like she is wearing her mask when a customer is in the shop. I don’t think she needs to wear it when customers are looking at her from outside the shop tbh. Unless there are other staff working right alongside her?

Pobblebonk · 26/09/2020 01:07

Has she been employed less than two years? If so, give her a final warning and, if necessary, sack her.

vanillandhoney · 26/09/2020 06:50

@Tadpolesandfroglets

I know it changed on Thursday. I work in retail. My bosses are buying us all visors because they believe it’s an acceptable alternative. I can’t find anything anywhere saying any different so just wondering where you got this info from.
The law states the covering has to fit around the face.

"In the context of the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak, a face covering is something which safely covers the nose and mouth. You can buy reusable or single-use face coverings. You may also use a scarf, bandana, religious garment or hand-made cloth covering but these must securely fit round the side of the face."

That's not a visor. I think your employer will find themselves on the receiving end of a fine if they're reported. A visor is not a face covering.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#what-a-face-covering-is

ivykaty44 · 26/09/2020 06:58

Contact ACAS for advice

LangClegsInSpace · 26/09/2020 07:25

It's another case of guidance vs. legislation I think vanillandhoney. You've linked to the guidance but the legislation itself just says:

“face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

vanillandhoney · 26/09/2020 07:29

@LangClegsInSpace

It's another case of guidance vs. legislation I think vanillandhoney. You've linked to the guidance but the legislation itself just says:

“face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

When all the media outlets and articles have specifically said mask, why would you deliberately try and get around that by using a visor?

I don't get why employers would want to risk getting a fine on a technicality - visors do nothing in terms of actual protection.

I would also argue that a plastic shield over the face doesn't cover the mouth or nose at all.

MRex · 26/09/2020 07:41

You have other staff members, who happen to be family, asking her to wear a mask for their protection and to protect the business from a fine; she's being being very unreasonable and sounds like a very unpleasant person to have around in a small business. Disciplinary is the only possible route. Follow the ACAS code, but this may be useful: esphr.co.uk/news/10-steps-to-fairly-manage-disciplinary-issues.

madcatladyforever · 26/09/2020 07:43

I'd ask her if she wants to continue working there or not. There are a lot of people looking for work right now who would be more compliant.

LangClegsInSpace · 26/09/2020 07:45

A shield is not a face covering in Scottish law:

“face covering” means a covering of any type (other than a face shield) which covers a person’s nose and mouth,

www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/279/regulation/2/made

They amended the regs to specifically exclude face shields on 8 August.

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