Do people actually not understand the rules or are they choosing not to?

[Anniemabel]

Some people openly disagree with the rules and have chosen not to follow them. But others seem to not understand the rules and I can’t work out if they actually find them confusing or if they are kind of trying to give themselves a reason not to follow them by almost kidding themselves that they are ambiguous.

For example mum on our class whatsapp asked whether her child would be sent home if she sent him into school with a cough. Cue various parents saying as long as he doesn’t have a temperature with it that’s fine. Another explained the need to test for any one of the three main symptoms, the mum acknowledge the response by saying “it’s all so confusing” but sent her child to school the next day anyway.

Similar questions arise about the rule of 6 all the time, saying it makes no sense. The “spirit” of it makes complete sense. The more people in a group the more likely it is that one might have covid and spread it to another. There are technical loopholes depending on how you interpret “gathering” but it’s clear as mud that they basically mean don’t have more than 6 people in your house please.

I kind of prefer the people who openly break the rules to those who apparently don’t understand them!

While im not in the UK, i couldnt even tell you what our local restrictions are. Havent looked in weeks now, nor do i care too
All i know is dd can go to school, i can go to shops and we have crowds at events like the footy

I keep posting this but yes the rules are confusing because they keep changing, sometimes within a couple of days; they vary slightly for each individual special area and sometimes within individual areas; and they don't always make sense in terms of protection from catching Covid19.

Sorry forgot the rule of 6 - in England under 12s count, in Scotland they don't. Why, if the science is behind it?

I've not got a clue.
I'm peripetetic and so I'm in multiple schools. All of them have entirely different set ups and rules of what we can and can't do. I have to keep asking for reminders. Some schools are very strict on illness and one that I was in twice this week has the majority of staff and children in with coughs and colds and several staff has mentioned that they'd had fevers and so had the kids

I'm not fussed if I didn't want to take the risk I'd not go to work.

But I don't understand all the different sets of rules. I don't know what I'm allowed to do outside of school.

However although we aren't in a lockdown area I am minimising my contact with people because of everyone I know really I'm at a really at risk job without ppe so I just feel now like I want to keep my distance from people because I don't know what I could be incubating.

I always warn my friends the situation if they suggest play dates (which are currently allowed....I think!!!!!! - again really not sure ). Some friends have said they're ok with it but some have not wanted to take the risk as they (like me ) don't want their kids catching stuff and missing out on school.

So I don't know what the rules actually are, but im sort of imposing my own on myself as I know that I'm very much in the direct line of fire of catching stuff. (And I'm supposed to be shielding and am immunosuppressed).

So yes I'm making up the rules myself but I'm making them up stricter than they probably are so I would imagine my making up isn't a bad thing

^^ total lack of grammar in that post! Points given for comprehension!

Maybe the rules are difficult to understand because the government wants them to be ... maybe government wants the public to fail ...so that when the death toll is so so high it can be the stupid public's fault.

This is the problem imv. I think a free NHS service has lead people to feel they can do whatever they want healthwise and if something goes wrong it's someone else's fault - at present mostly the Gov to blame - we need to get our act together, the longer this goes on, thanks to not following rules, the worse the economic fall out will be - but I'm sure the professional whingers will find plenty to blame when they are skint and their DCs unable to find work - it will be the rich/ Gov/ middle classes /the opposite party to the one they voted for etc.

Alexander Downer a former Australian Politician was on Question Time last night and as the various politicians on the show picked holes in whatever the other politican said (SNP, Labour, Conservative) he said how shocked he was at the inability for the Gov to work together when there is a National Disaster.
It's True, it's disgraceful - why work at fixing a catastrophe when I can do my utmost to get the present Gov unseated so my party might gain a few more seats at the next election.

I hate all this "people aren't following the rules" nonsense. People ARE following the rules. People were allowed to go.to restaurants and pubs in the summer. Now they are being blamed for the rise in cases.

I live in Wales, close to the border. I work in England. Two different sets of rules. I have family members in Two different local lockdown areas. So that's another two different sets of rules. Yes I can look them up etc if I am so inclined. But I would agree that it the government wants us to stick to the rules, they should publicise them better. I don't watch television news and I have heard things third hand from others.

Did you know off licences also have to close in Wales at 10? Who knew Bargain Booze was a covid hotspot?!

It's to stop people being thrown out of pubs and immediately getting more booze and partying on in groups.

Offies always used to close at the same time as pubs back when I were a lass (when dinosaurs roamed the earth and supermarket all night opening didn't exist)

It's not my responsibility to police people. I can only make my own decisions and set my own boundaries. While it is tempting to feel superior to others and I have those thoughts myself from time to time stones in glass houses and all that plus it's an empty emotion...other activities are more fulfilling ultimately

The rules are utterly non-sensical and overly authoritarian based on flawed data.

I have complied with them so far yet am at the point where I am fully in protest mode.

This infliction to our liberty is something none of us should be giving up lightly and the destruction of our society and wellbeing is so disproportionate it’s hard to comprehend how people are so accepting. I’m amazed at the levels of compliance tbh, but there are a reasonable number who feel like me who are feeling more brave about starting to stand up and against all of this

The curtailment of certain human rights is permissible in a pandemic, and in UK it happened via the Emergency Powers Act, which contains a sunset clause and six-monthly reviews. It was passed unopposed.

The first formal review is due now (happening in Parliament next week) so there is still time to email your MP with your views

Yay," another everyone is stupid except me! " thread

Not stupid but definitely lazy. I'm so tired of my class WhatsApp and local Facebook ALL being full of apparently fully literate people asking about rules that are extremely clear if you even google 'coronavirus rules UK' or similar.

It’s lots of things
Different rules for different places - some places in lockdown some not
Ever changing rules- we don’t all watch the news and keep up
People are bored of it all/ worried about elderly relatives etc
Some people’s mh is poor and they are not coping with more and more restrictions
Illogical rules- eg it’s fine for me to work literally 6 inches away from a strangers (Well multiple strangers) mouth 6 hours a day but a socially distanced Masked chat with a friend after church is dangerous and must be banned

Plus non compliance

A government who blames the people during a pandemic need to be very far away from power.

For rules to be followed they need to be clear and consistent.

It’s not our responsibility to work out if you can shake someone’s hand on a Tuesday if the moon is full.

Understand the rules? It's a joke

We live in one of the new local restricted areas. The council gives lots of info and advice but is coy as to what is the law.

I'm clear we can't visit other houses or gardens but it appears we could share a car? I'm trying to work it out as we have a weekend away with some neighbours and it appears that we are ok going camping although they "advise not to share a caravan". Also not to socialise together. How does that work going on holiday with someone and not being allowed to socialise so I'm guessing that is advice as well

What about if we go for a sandwich together when out for the day!!!!

It is so complex and seems a repeat of the law doesn't say it so they try and pretend it is law by saying you should not do etc....

I expect the rules are clear if you check the government website.

Personally I'm sick and tired of watching the updates and checking the exact rules, so I just go by what I sort of pick up (on MN and in real life). I think there are probably lots of people like me, who were careful and compliant to begin with and have reached a point of 'guideline fatigue'.

I do more or less follow the guidelines btw to the extent that I can be bothered to find out what they are

I think there's also an element of people knowing the rules but in some cases they're so impractical or silly feeling that people convince themselves it isn't really what they mean. People who are told to self-isolate as a contact for two weeks feel that it can't really be that they can't go for a walk, seeing no one, on day 12 because it feels ridiculous. People assume young children are exempt from social distancing because of the reality of getting a toddler not to hug their grandma.

I had a whooping cough vaccination yesterday (I'm pregnant) and the nurse giving it said 'this might cause a fever. I'm supposed to tell you to self-isolate and get a Covid test anyway if you get a temperature, but obviously that might feel like an overreaction, it's up to you...' and shrugged in a 'obviously it's madness to tell you to do that when we both know that any temperature will be the vaccine, but that is the actual rule' way. Happily I did not get a temperature.

So I think people know the rules in theory but when they butt up against them and find them impractical, silly or just have a 'really?!' moment they start to feel like it can't really mean that and that's when they start following what they think is the spirit of the rules, and that's when people start interpreting wildly differently.

I'm in Scotland and find the rules constantly change.

So last weekend, my son could play a football match, but only see one friend after. This week, he can see up to 6 from different household s as long as sd and outside.

We can't go into my mil house, but we can still send our child there for childcare.

And no mixing households indoors, unless in self catering accommodation.... that one has changed several times in one day!!

The rule of 6 - children under 12 in Scotland, 11 in wales are not included in the number yet are in England. But we are to believe this is science based.

There are so many rules the news can't cover them all, so you need to actively go looking for them, and if you don't watch local news but national news instead, then rules applicable to your area aren't covered.

@OverTheRubicon

Yay," another everyone is stupid except me! " thread

Not stupid but definitely lazy. I'm so tired of my class WhatsApp and local Facebook ALL being full of apparently fully literate people asking about rules that are extremely clear if you even google 'coronavirus rules UK' or similar.

And that's the issue - there aren't covid rules uk. It depends on where you live as each country in the uk have their own rules. Then some areas within the country have additional rules. Add in some rules have been changed multiple times in a day, it depends on someone checking them several times per day to know the absolute current rule.

So not as easy as you make out.

@tigger1001

We are back to what are the rules (law) and what is advice. Seems the council and civil servants are at it again trying to make it up. What we had on last lockdown was the police trying to enforce rules as the law and a review by the cps found nearly all prosecutions or outcomes were utterly flawed and were not based on the law

What if you house is 6 people to start with? Does it mean nobody can visit?

@ Mumisnotmyonlyname

“What if you house is 6 people to start with? Does it mean nobody can visit?“

Yes it does unfortunately (in England), unless 5 of your household go out, in which case you can have 5 people over- but still distancing at 2m.

I’m in a lockdown area. The amount of people around me who misunderstand the “bubble” concept is driving me berserk.

We’ve been advised not to meet anyone outside of our own household or bubble in public places and banned from having them in our homes or gardens.

Facebook at the moment is a rinse and repeat of;

“Can I still go to a restaurant with 5 of my mates?”

“Yeah hun, I’m doing cos we are all in each other’s bubble”

“I think you’ve misunderstood, a single person can bubble with another household...aren’t you all married with kids?”

“Yeah but they are my bubble!!! I need them for my mental health!!!”

“I’m not sure that’s right...my Gran is 86 and is in our bubble because she’s vulnerable and lives alone but we can’t bubble with anyone else...”

“Nah...your bubble is your support network. It can be up to six people. They don’t all have to be from the same household.”

“Hang on a minute?! We’ve been told we shouldn’t be mixing with other households!!! Why are you all going to the pub with your mates?! This is how it spreads!!!”

“It IS allowed!!! It’s only ADVICE. As long as it’s only 6 it’s fine. We need to keep the businesses going and are spirits up by seeing our friends.”

“I don’t think that’s right...”

“I’m out now for lunch with 3 of my friends and our kids, it’s ok because we are in each other’s bubble and the kids are in the same bubble at school.”

“Aren’t your kids meant to be isolating? I thought their whole year group got sent home?!”

“Yeah but they are all in the same bubble and we are social distanced from the other tables hun x”

Honestly...the rage.

I think people just imagine up the rules they want to live with rather than the actual rules. And if I hear “bubble” one more time I’ll scream.

@NameChange84

I completely agree with everything you’ve written.

It’s driving me berserk too!

Then once they play the “it’s for my mental health” it’s a bit like a get out of jail free card and seems to trump all of the rules and guidelines.

Don’t get me wrong - for people with serious/severe mental health problems I have no problem with them getting support. But not just because they feel a bit stressed or low at having to stay in more.

Reality check, that’s a completely normal response to a stressful situation. We all feel the same, it’s not easy. Imagine how you’d feel if you’d been asked to go to war, or evacuate across the country to strangers etc.....

Yes @Chestergirl39 the people I know who are saying it’s “for their mental health” have never previously been diagnosed with any mental health conditions AND have previously had zero sympathy for, and have taken the piss out of, those people with genuine mental health conditions over the years. Think, teaching colleagues off with burnout and stress so bad they made an attempt on their life, “ahhh yeah, it’s SO bad that she can go out for coffee and cake with her Mum when she’s been signed off? Might get signed off myself”...”I’m sick of her using anxiety as an excuse - get over yourself woman!” etc...

I’d like to think lockdown might have made them nicer but somehow I doubt it.