Is shutting a whole year group overly cautious?

[Marcellemouse]

I have 2 secondary school DC at different schools. Both schools are old buildings with small poorly ventilated classrooms so unable to social distance. There's been a case of CV in each school however the infected DC has not passed the virus on to any other DC in their year group (year 8 and year 9). It's made me wonder how necessary it is to shut the bubbles. What experience do others have? From what I can see locally it doesn't seem to be spreading massively amongst pupils like we thought it would which is great.

As others have said, at the point of a positive COVID test, Public Health England, via the DfE advise each school. This is bespoke to who has tested positive, who they have had direct contact with. It won't necessarily be the same advice to every school as every school is different.

@Flower262

DD’s year 13 had 2 cases, on Monday 14th, sent home close contacts. By Thursday 17th they had 5 cases. Still sent home close contacts. On Sunday they closed the year for 2 weeks, now at over 30 cases. 180 in year.

Thankfully haven’t heard of any being really unwell with it.

That does sound a lot. Did the transmission happen in school? In year 13 there is often/always a lot of socialising outside of school. I would be annoyed if a get-together outside of school had led to this kind of disruption. The year 12 had planned a mass get-together at the start of term that thankfully didn't lead to any cases, but just one positive case at these social events can lead to a lot of transmission - which is why they are illegal! Annoyingly those who attended were likely driven there and collected by their parents (it was in the countryside) - parents who facilitate rule-breaking and virus transmission but yet presumably want their DC to get an education are a mystery to me, they must know they are doing a bad thing but can't stand up to their own children (my DC is too nerdy to even hear about these events until afterwards, no danger of ever getting invited).

As others have said, at the point of a positive COVID test, Public Health England, via the DfE advise each school. This is bespoke to who has tested positive, who they have had direct contact with.

Is it really the case that schools don't have their own policies set by the head on how they bubble and who they send home if there is a positive test? Does this apply equally to private schools?

The concept of “bubbles” doesn’t really apply in secondary schools. We have large groups which we try to keep separate thereby creating “firebreaks”. Schools can decide how to form these groups, but they do not have the authority to decide who to send home.

From the guidance for schools: The advice service (or PHE local health protection team if escalated) will provide definitive advice on who must be sent home.

@HipTightOnions

At DSs secondary(private) we were told they are running year bubbles. It's hard to see how they could do anything else given that maths is in sets and languages involve children from different forms in the year.

It looks like PHE will have to find a way to avoid sending an entire home if there is one positive case if it's all ultimately up to them.

entire *year home

@HipTightOnions. I guess how the school has structured the bubbles or firebreaks will ultimately inform what PHE will decide if there is a case.

[quote notevenat20]@HipTightOnions. I guess how the school has structured the bubbles or firebreaks will ultimately inform what PHE will decide if there is a case.[/quote]
I think it might also depend how schools are managing other things - amount of movement around school, one-way systems and distancing in corridors, consistent seating plans, teaching in forms rather than mixing for options/sets etc.

There’s clearly not a “one size fits all” approach.

It looks like PHE will have to find a way to avoid sending an entire home if there is one positive case if it's all ultimately up to them.

^^^ This. I really hope they do!

We are definately seeing it starting to spread across a year group. 1 child positive result last friday, but had been in on the Wednesday - Friday waiting for results (tested friday). 3 of his friendship group sent home by the friday, plus another 3 in his eng/maths/science set. We have an additional 14 waiting for results as they have symptoms.

Oh, and his form teacher and maths teacher are waiting for results as they also have symptoms.

And for those asking, PHE make the decision based on a wide range of factors. We had no say in the consequences. And we are also not the only school in Manchester to have problems with students being tested and still sent in.

I think it might also depend how schools are managing other things - amount of movement around school, one-way systems and distancing in corridors, consistent seating plans, teaching in forms rather than mixing for options/sets etc.

Surely PHE don’t have the resources for that sort of detailed onsite inspection do they?

They don't inspect, they just ask (I was on the conference call yesterday). It is in a schools best interest to be completely honest and the we are advised accordingly. For example because of our issue with a child not isolating, our y10 and y11 have had to isolate as they used the canteen at the same time and the risk had increased massively.

They don't inspect, they just ask (I was on the conference call yesterday). It is in a schools best interest to be completely honest and the we are advised accordingly. For example because of our issue with a child not isolating, our y10 and y11 have had to isolate as they used the canteen at the same time and the risk had increased massively.

That makes sense. So is there anything a secondary school can do in terms of how they arrange the school/pupils to stop an entire year being sent home?

So is there anything a secondary school can do in terms of how they arrange the school/pupils to stop an entire year being sent home?

I expect they are generally doing as much as they can. However schools are at the same time required to deliver “a broad and balanced curriculum” which limits what they can do in terms of keeping bubbles small.

And we are also not the only school in Manchester to have problems with students being tested and still sent in
That is very disheartening to hear. Perhaps the form for testing should include a box to name the school, so the school can be informed if a pupil has had a test and awaiting results. That should be illegal. If you have reason to need a test you should not be circulating outside, let alone at school. I know the results can take a while but it is so unfair on the other pupils. This might also put people having a test out of interest or whatever reason someone would put their DC through a quite uncomfortable invasive test without symptoms. But if they have symptoms then they should be kept at home. I find it worrying that schools are not told of a pupil on their premises awaiting a test result.

@notevenat20

They don't inspect, they just ask (I was on the conference call yesterday). It is in a schools best interest to be completely honest and the we are advised accordingly. For example because of our issue with a child not isolating, our y10 and y11 have had to isolate as they used the canteen at the same time and the risk had increased massively.

That makes sense. So is there anything a secondary school can do in terms of how they arrange the school/pupils to stop an entire year being sent home?

Our DC school have different eating areas for each year group. That meant some yeargroups not having hot food, but at least they could still have a packed lunch or cold food. Worth it not to be sent home because someone in a different yeargroup tests positive.

They don't inspect, they just ask (I was on the conference call yesterday).

This is what I was expecting but it worries me a bit. Our head is relentlessly upbeat and I fear might respond with what the RA says, rather than what is actually happening.

It is involved quite inventive use of space, e.g.one year group has food served from the home economics room! Another eat in an art area. It is absolutely worth it to totally prevent year-groups spending prolonged time together.

Cases are sky rocketing. PHE are not taking extreme measures. They are following known protocols and risk assessments. They could really use the support rather than parents thinking they know better.

DC (14) was sent home due to a case in one options class. Two other options classes and the pupil's form were sent home. Half the year group I'd say.

There are multiple cases at the school and at his brother's secondary too.

Every school and case is different. More than 100 impacted by us. In some it's the class, some the year, some teachers, staff and groups. Some, whole school closure.

One case in our year9. Whole tear sent home for a day to contract trace and isolate close contacts. Rest of the year back the day after that. No further cases.

@Baaaahhhhh

One case in our year9. Whole tear sent home for a day to contract trace and isolate close contacts. Rest of the year back the day after that. No further cases.

Mine's had 8 days 'off' with weekends and last contact, the school were working on 14 days. It's been a slog and I'm not convinced we won't get sent back again due to several cases at school now.

It depends on the school. Schools with the space for year groups to be separated into smaller bubbles for break and lunch times etc then yes, only close contacts can be sent home rather than the whole year group.

My local school (next door neighbour works there) says there is free mixing in each year's social space so the whole year group had to be sent home.

Is it really the case that schools don't have their own policies set by the head on how they bubble and who they send home if there is a positive test? Does this apply equally to private schools?

No idea about private schools, I work with maintained.
You are confusing two things about policy.
Yes, schools have their own policies based on detailed Risk Assessments involving H&S within the LA. This defines organisation within the school to minimise the risk of catching COVID.

Part of the policy and an expectation by PHE is that if there is a positive case within the community of the school, PHE advise accordingly as to any form of partial/full closure, they provide a master letter for the school to send out to parents.
They monitor the single positive test to check for an outbreak ( more cases) and of course advise again under these circumstances.
It is bespoke as every circumstance is different, who has tested positive, where they work in the school, who they work with, how long are they in close contact with others, school transport, building layout etc.

@belowradar yes the original cases started from a party which the original 2 cases attended, an 18th.