Why can after school clubs run in private schools?

[notevenat20]

At the state secondary schools I know all after school clubs, including for example music, have been cancelled. But the private schools are still running school string orchestra for example after school. They separate them by year bubble so the year 7s are 2m away from the year 8s etc. But within the year the can be closer.

Are the rules different for private schools?

In answer to a) Yes. Schools run a lot on goodwill. Funnily as teachers we didn’t choose the career on the ‘gold plated pension’ and the ‘amazing holidays’. It’s a vocation. We love to see children happy and flourish - inside and outside of the classroom. But your answer to c) has prevented us from being able to offer those clubs. Some schools will be better equipped than others. As I said before. Pupils at my schools travel far and arrive by school coach. We used to run clubs at dinner time. That time has been reduced so hence no clubs.

And yes, teacher’s contracts are different in academies. The Trust decide the T and C and each Trust, like a business, will have different T and C.

[quote BunsyGirl]@AlexaShutUp On the contrary, I think you will find that many teachers are less at risk in private schools. My own DC’s private school has put lots of measures in place including hiring extra toilets so each year group has their own. They have reduced the size of every class. They have put in portable hand washing basins. Staff are provided with masks and visors for close up work. The kids have their temperature checked every morning before they are allowed to enter. Parents have to wear masks at drop off and pick up. The dining halls are not in use - the kids eat outside in year groups. Two areas (including an entire playground) are going to have waterproof covers put over them so the kids can be outside even in bad weather. Dance lessons and orchestra practice etc will also take place under this cover so they are resurfacing the playground with a much softer material to allow this to happen. Every child from year 3 upwards has been provided with an iPad so books do not come in and out of school and they can switch quickly to remote learning. After school clubs are only in year groups now and there are no sports fixtures at the moment. Uniform has been relaxed so that no ties and blazers are worn.[/quote]
Sounds almost identical to the measures at my sons state school, but they have chrome books instead of ipads.

You are correct - independent school teachers are contracted until 5.30-6.30 usually and this includes afterschool care. State school do it either for extra pay or because they want to

No clubs at DS's state primary, where they normally have lots. But the logistics of space and pick-up and cleaning the school mean it wouldn't work.

DD's state secondary isn't running clubs in person, but has set up a couple of online music groups.

And DD's out of school string ensemble is still running.

My dc is at a private prep school. Last year all clubs were included in the fees. This term they've kept the price the same and Dc are allowed to stay after school but for supervised homework only.

No 'clubs' are running. So it's not just state schools. They've also shut their pool. Not sure how other private schools are getting around it. Ours is £6k a term so not exactly one that can justify full fees for no extras but I am going to wait and see what happens over the course of this year.

Those safety measures do not describe my DH's private school at all.

@greyhues that doesn't sound great. Private Prep here. Clubs running in year group bubbles so still same availability but not as much choice. 2 teachers per year group and they run 2 nights each. TA's cover in case of absence.

Swimming has moved to fortnightly but longer lessons to allow for cleaning of changing rooms.

Stings ensemble things happening in year group. No brass or choirs.

Librarian comes to them rather than they go to library.

Each year group had its own toilets anyway but they have hired extra hand wash stations.

That isn’t great greyhues have they said they are doing a phased opening of clubs once they get the measure of things. That’s what DCs school said.

Clubs in state schools tend to be run by teachers- in their own time ( ie unpaid) In addition to all their usual work before and after school many have additional duties COVID related- most are lucky if they get a few minutes to even go to the loo during the day.

I was visiting a school yesterday and three weeks in, the teachers are all on their knees. You really can't blame them for cancelling clubs!

@SimonJT Great that your DS’s school has reduced the class sizes, I don’t know of any state schools local to me that have managed to do that.

Our bubbles are class bubbles and they aren't allowed to mix inside. Any club I would normally run runs inside my classroom so unless I only want to offer it to my own class then the alternative is no club. Not every teacher does one ( they are voluntary and unpaid) so that would mean some classes had access and others did not and parents then complain.

@NotDonna @flowerycurtain
My dc loves the school so I'm going to give them a chance and I can see them really trying to protect staff and pupils with all that's gone on, but it is hard to pay the money up knowing everything we signed up for is now not happening.

All I know is they are going to get through this half term with the extra measures they've put in place and we will most likely find out soon what is going to happen. I don't see much changing until next term from what I've gathered though.

That sounds fair enough greyhues It really is very very difficult and staff & child safety is paramount. Whilst clubs are lovely, they’re hardly essential. It’s not something I’d be getting stressed about either.

Our state school is running a slightly reduced number of clubs each specific to the bubbles. The before and after school provision is running as normal.

Do state school teachers normally run after school clubs for no benefit to themselves (not even promotion prospects ) at all and with no obligation to do so? That is basically as charitable giving?

I have to assume you've never been to school in the UK, of any sort?

Or read any MN education threads.

Yes, state schooling in England relies enormously on staff goodwill. That's why staff give up their free time to run clubs, supervise homework, run catch-up sessions and revision sessions after school, at lunch, in holidays. Sometimes schools can afford to recompense (for holiday working, say) or allow time in lieu (a later start if you ran a session till 5 the night before) but these days even that doesn't really happen because schools' budgets haven't increased enough to allow for the sheer numbers of pupils most are dealing with now, or the extra costs associated with running schools (NI increases, utilities costs are through the roof compared with 30 years ago etc etc)
Yes, academies can specify what they want in contracts, so some may have written into their contract that they must run a club...but does that really foster a strong working relationship forcing staff to give extra on top of a full working day? Many chain academies/MATs are performing extremely poorly and have low staff morale/high staff turnover.
Some schools manage to pay teaching assistants to run clubs, either included in their hours, or time in lieu, often using PP funding etc to allow for this. Again, budgets are getting far tighter, and this seems to be disappearing.

Every school is different though (independent and state)- this is why people should pay far more attention to what they're choosing to send their children to.

I have to assume you've never been to school in the UK, of any sort?

Every day of the week for many years :). But they don't tend to tell you what has incentivised them to run clubs. As I say, our community state primary head said she required every member of staff to run one after school club so I am still not sure how she does that

Yes, academies can specify what they want in contracts, so some may have written into their contract that they must run a club...but does that really foster a strong working relationship forcing staff to give extra on top of a full working day?

Can they pay more as well? (Sorry this is a little off topic.)

Our state secondary is running limited after school clubs. Kids limited to 2 per week which is reasonable as they have to keep them within year group.

Our school (small independent) is running some after school clubs - mostly sports but also Minecraft, art and homework prep. That's about half the normal number.

Well spaced out, and very carefully

[quote BunsyGirl]@SimonJT Great that your DS’s school has reduced the class sizes, I don’t know of any state schools local to me that have managed to do that.[/quote]
His school have done it by increasing outdoor PE and by having an indoor PE session going in the assembly hall each lesson. Its enabled them to split lots of the KS1 classes, yr 5/6 remain the same, but as they’re older they are more sensible with hand hygiene etc.

I have some questions about this. Do state school teachers normally run after school clubs for no benefit to themselves (not even promotion prospects ) at all and with no obligation to do so? That is basically as charitable giving?

Yes, that's the basis on which I have always run clubs.

DDs community primary head told us she requires all teachers to run one after school club. Is that something that is actually in her power?

No. But she may have included it as a measure of performance management, which the teacher has accepted and agreed. That would be very unusual though as targets are normally linked to academic progress.

Our after school clubs used to run directly after the end of lessons at 3.

Currently our school day is:

KS3 9- 3
KS4 10-4

This is to facilitate the staggered start.

Teachers are teaching for longer hours so we have no spare capacity to run clubs - plus we have to keep KS3/4 separate and different year groups separate within the KS.

Can we just clear up any misconceptions that teachers get paid extra for running after school clubs; they don’t. However, there is often the expectation that they will run either an after school or lunch time club. It might come as a shock to discover that they don’t get paid extra for going on PGL trips either, even at the weekend!

DS’s state Grammar school is starting to run clubs again, there’s brass, woodwind, strong and ukulele ensembles and choir. Sports clubs haven’t started but year 9 kayaking has (which DS is gutted about as he wanted to do it but is year 7).