How can the one household rule be enforced?

[GruffaloandMouse]

In my area of the North we can only mix with our own household. I don’t understand how this can be enforced. Me and a friend could go to a cafe and say we live together as sisters or flat mates or even partners and no one would question it. It would only seem very suspicious if we turned up in a big group.

Does anyone else think this?

Well it can't, it relies on people telling the truth. I have booked Pizza Hut tonight and I did have to tick a box to say I was booking in line with any local restrictions.

I also have no idea what is what now, I live in area 1 (no extra restrictions) work in area 2 and have family in area 3 which have restrictions, but not the same so I basically can't keep up and have thoroughly muddled myself up.

I guess in the same way that nobody checks whether I put my seatbelt on me and my children every time I get in my car the Government hope that the strength of the message will filter through people's mind before they make choices.

The police cells and courts are not going to be full of cafe going individuals so it won't be enforced in that way.

However for some businesses will probably receive the odd check up - my town recently received a red flag (rates of infection have doubled) and the Council have said they will be following it up by checking on pubs, restaurants etc.

It can't be enforced. People should not have to be forced to behave responsibly.

Unfortunately, years of nanny state means that many people are incapable of thinking for themselves and have to be told what to do all the time.

Me and a friend have debated trying to pass ourselves as a couple and our DDs as twins so we can at least have a coffee together

Hang on.... I thought the only mixing with your own household was only applicable to private dwellings? If you want to meet at the pub or a cafe then you can as long as it’s in a group of no more than 6 from up to 2 households. That’s how I’ve read it for our region...

This is the problem. The restrictions have been bought in to try to slow the increase that we are seeing, for the benefit of everyone to keep the economy and schools open.

But people will go through any number of mental gymnastics to find a way to get around them for their own benefit or just because they don't think the rules should apply to them.

So ultimately the restrictions won't end up having the desired effect and we'll end up having to sacrifice something that will have a much bigger impact to everyone.

@GruffaloandMouse

In my area of the North we can only mix with our own household. I don’t understand how this can be enforced. Me and a friend could go to a cafe and say we live together as sisters or flat mates or even partners and no one would question it. It would only seem very suspicious if we turned up in a big group.

Does anyone else think this?

How about just complying instead of looking for ways to cheat.

That’s how I’ve read it for our region...

Aye, but every region is different. In the NE it is advised against.

How about just complying instead of looking for ways to cheat.

How about things making sense? I can sit for 8hours next to my colleague, but we can not go for lunch together in Costa.

@greytminds

Hang on.... I thought the only mixing with your own household was only applicable to private dwellings? If you want to meet at the pub or a cafe then you can as long as it’s in a group of no more than 6 from up to 2 households. That’s how I’ve read it for our region...

Where we live we can't meet up with anyone we don't live with in private or public places. I was at a cafe recently and they were turning away people who obviously didn't live together

Presumably you are socially distanced when working with your colleague? If not, you should be.

@TheGreatWave

How about just complying instead of looking for ways to cheat.

How about things making sense? I can sit for 8hours next to my colleague, but we can not go for lunch together in Costa.

Because we have to find a balance, people have to go to work to keep the economy going. What the data is showing is that we can't do everything.

Going to work and being in contact with colleagues is a risk.

Socialising with another household is another risk.

By doing both there are 2 risks instead of 1.

I can sit for 8hours next to my colleague, but we can not go for lunch together in Costa.

The reasoning behind it is that it's vitally important that people keep their jobs and that children get an education. Therefore, the priority is on work and schools.

You can go to work (where you should still be socially distanced) but to minimise the risk of spreading infection, you should not also be out socialising with work colleagues. It's a balancing act and it's incredibly difficult but if you can understand the reasoning behind it, it might make it easier to follow the rules.

Are bubbles defunct in the lockdown areas ? So a single person truly can never mix with anyone (unless receiving care, I guess).

@FatGirlShrinking

This is the problem. The restrictions have been bought in to try to slow the increase that we are seeing, for the benefit of everyone to keep the economy and schools open.

But people will go through any number of mental gymnastics to find a way to get around them for their own benefit or just because they don't think the rules should apply to them.

So ultimately the restrictions won't end up having the desired effect and we'll end up having to sacrifice something that will have a much bigger impact to everyone.

Couldn’t have written it better myself! 👏

Honestly, where does this end? It's going to be never ending with the current policies. People blaming everyone for not following the rules to the letter... It's not going to change. You will never get 100% compliance. We need to find a different way to handle this. Short of a vaccine appearing very suddenly which solves it all (and that is not going to be quick at all) we are going to have to find a way to solve this that doesn't involve stopping everyone living their lives. It's been 6 months. The last lockdown was supposed to be to get a grip on this and get cases down to a more manageable level. Yip and then what? We got cases down to a better level and they have shot straight back up. Other counties like Spain and France had even tougher lockdowns (some were angry we didn't go as far). Didn't make one jot of difference. They are back in the same situation now as we are. It's a really tough balance but not letting people see family /friends is not going to work in the long term. People won't comply and even if they did, restrictions being lifted will take us back to square 1. It's going to become a human rights issue - how long can governments pass emergency legislation with no consultation of parliament/ H o L, which takes away all our civil liberties? We need different measures which actually have long term effect? If rates are increasing at the same exponential rates now as in March, are social distancing and masks actually doing anything? I'm not against some measures to control the virus, but huge restrictions on where we can go and who we can meet for months at a time - no. Not unless there is a plan at the end of it all which means we aren't straight back to square one.

Most of it relies on self-policing I think. Obviously you can go to a cafe or wherever with another person and say (if asked) that you're from the same household, but a lot of people wouldn't be comfortable to do that - so it will work, like everything else, to some extent.

@TheGreatWave

How about just complying instead of looking for ways to cheat.

How about things making sense? I can sit for 8hours next to my colleague, but we can not go for lunch together in Costa.

It’s all about public perception though. You have to work with your colleague, but hopefully work have put into place certain measures to keep you safer, eg distancing, ppe etc. Work is essential. Socialising isn’t seen to be as much of a priority, and you’re unlikely to sit there with masks on and 2m apart etc. The other thing is that if people see others not abiding by the rules it is more likely to make them do the same.

Here you go. An example of how one person decided they didn't need to follow the rules.

All he had to do was quarantine after his holiday, instead he went on a pub crawl spreading Covid everywhere he went before he finally got a positive test result several days later.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54205353

It’s can’t. Like all other rules the Government is relying on people doing as asked, and look where we are

You will never get 100% compliance. We need to find a different way to handle this. Short of a vaccine appearing very suddenly which solves it all (and that is not going to be quick at all) we are going to have to find a way to solve this that doesn't involve stopping everyone living their lives.

I think this statement illustrates the problem. People don't seem to understand that, short of a vaccine, there is no other way. That's it. There is no magic cure.

If we had 100% compliance then, yes, the virus would die out. That is the only other way to rid ourselves of it. But people are stupid and therefore they will keep ignoring rules and spreading it. So we just have to try and get as close to 100% as we can.

We could live like this for another couple of years yet. Our only hope is a vaccine.

My parents are in the North (Local lockdown area) and go out for dinner weekly with another couple so are known at the restaurant. With local restrictions they aren’t allowed at the same table yet next to them was a table of five women in their 40s, I’d be surprised if they were one household. It can’t be policed. It relies on people following the law.

None of the lockdown rules in march - may could be properly enforced, (the police force are cut to the bone dealing with serious crime let alone checking if your nan visited for sunday lunch last week) it relied on people complying voluntarily

I’m not sure how it will be policed and suspect it won’t be. Hopefully the majority will follow the guidelines, but unfortunately any policy relying on goodwill won’t ever have 100% compliance. You’ll have the ones who don’t agree with them so won’t do it, the ones who are too stupid to understand them, the ones who think they can find a clever way around them, the ones who don’t like the government so won’t comply, the ones who think they’ve got a special reason why the rules don’t apply to them, the ones who say they’re exempt for some reason, the ones who don’t believe in the virus, the ones who just want to do what they like, the ones who say if Dominic Cummings can then I will, the ones who say I go to work/school with 30 people so what’s the point, the ones who say what’s wrong with one extra person etc etc etc. And so it goes on....

@MrsBrunch sorry I think it's you that doesn't understand...why will the virus "disappear" with 100% compliance? Even the government scientists have admitted it's too late for this now - it's here to stay. If it had been contained in the place of origin at the very beginning, yes. Way too late now. It's not going away. Even if the UK could drive down to zero cases (absolutely impossible now anyway), it would just take a few imported cases and that's it (just like at beginning of year). And you aren't understanding psychology - we can scream about people not complying - it's human nature. Not going to change. So that leaves us with a question, do we spend years living lives of boredom, loneliness and yearning in a desperate bid to eradicate an uncontrollable virus? Or do we accept we will have to live with the virus and find ways to let society function. We cannot stop every victim of covid. It's not possible. We need to stop health service being overwhelmed - yes. How do you see the economy going if we keep stopping and starting everything? It would be a hideous disaster. And the economy is absolutely vital! There is no magic cute - lockdown won't solve it either.