No refund on £4,500 house rental

[littlelightshining]

Every year my whole extended family rent a big house for the October half term (one week). We save a certain amount each month into one account and that covers the cost of the house rental and usually a big sainsbury's shop. It's literally the highlight of everyone's year (yes, we're a family that actualy quite like each other!) and many years it's the only holiday we have. We had booked for this October and received a message from the house rental people saying only 6 people can go, but because the house rental is still legal we are not entitled to a refund. They will not move the booking to another week next year. The house is obviously ridiculously big for 6 people, and that would also make a very expensive week for 6 people to pay!! Does anyone know if we have a leg to stand on? We've tried appealing for flex or compromise but received a reply telling us that they are close to liquidating the company and we have no other options. Anyone have any helpful insight here? Realise that losing money isn't as bad as many situations others are facing right now, but have to admit I'm feeling a bit down about it right now.

OP I'm rubbish at links but there was an article on BBC news about this. It's called

Rule of six is hammer blow for holiday cottages.

If you read down it says group accommodation bookings should be covered under guidance from the comp markets authority saying consumers should expect a full refund.

Is it not possible to have more than 6 but not have more than 6 in one room at a time. A hotel isn't restricted to 6 in total.

Would they even know?

Could you all wear similar outfits and constantly keep moving about so they could never accurately count you all!

Frustration is not just in cases of impossibility - it also applies if the "event" deprives the contract of its commercial purpose - highly debateable but the difference between 6 people and 20 people makes this a very arguable case.

I assume when you booked it last year those conditions didn't apply, so if they now want to change the terms does that potentially allow you to a refund?

How was payment made OP? If even part of it was paid on a credit card you may have a section 75 claim on the card issuer.

Always, always pay some part of the fees by credit card if at all possible, look on it as credit insurance.

If they refusing to budge can you go as single family’s or 6s anyway?? I’d be dammed to leave it empty even if you stick to the 6 rule. Maybe 2 days per family?

go to bank ask for refund of credit or debit card if you have email chain & advert for this place
If you have credit card you could threaten them with this (some other mums netter give correct term for these refunds!)

Thanks for the bbc article. That sounds hopeful!

I paid by bank transfer. We've been to the same house for the last two years so I had absolutely no concerns about needing insurance... you live and learn!!

So options to try (I'm in for a fun weekend!):

• bank to check if there's any help there
• Travel insurance
• try and decipher the "competition and markets" guidance that applies per the bbc article

Really appreciate all the advice and perspectives.

Just been on LBC radio women ringing saying place let go 15 now only 6 for consumer hour. She was offered use it as 6 and we give you some refund but not pro rata. Or they were offering to advertising and sell the holiday again and if they could they refunded.

Sadly consumer guy said that’s all they could hope for and he really knows his stuff.

If there was no hope of getting money back, I'd let one family go on holiday and get them to sleep in a different bed every night ...

Is the company one that just owns this property or is it a rental company (like Air Bnb or HomeAway)?

If the former then I highly doubt it is on the brink of insolvency, because it would most likely be BTL mortgages on properties in a company for liability and tax reasons.

Can you not all become one household before the trip? There has to be ways of actually staying within the law here.

For example, a household of 2 parents and 10 kids would be lawful.

Id just pretend we were all one big multi generational household 😂

Haven’t RFT but have you asked if they can push the booking onto next year? They keep the money, you get the holiday next year.

Would it be possible to ignore the rule of 6 completely and just go? (SD, ventilate rooms)

Go in groups of 6 for 2 nights each?

Or is your ideal to get a full refund?

@abigailsdinner they own a few properties but not a big company.

We are all blood relatives (apart from the poor fools who married into this madness) but technically 4 different households over three generations. We considered going and just keeping ourselves to ourselves but I'm not sure we're brave enough and I don't want to spend the week fretting!!

Do you have legal insurance as part of your house insurance? (Or through car insurance, bank account, union membership, work etc?)

If so, speak to them. They should hopefully be able to write you a nice letter to send in suitably equally robust legalese to effectively say well my solicitor says you’re wrong, you need to refund us.

If you don’t think there’s much else you can do then if it’s free you won’t lose money on it an might get the money back.

If you didn’t print off the t&c at the time, do so ASAP in case they have changed them... or do so shortly. See if you can find their date - if they have been changed since they were booked that’s an indication that there was something in them that would have meant they should refund you - otherwise why change them? So even just comparing might be worthwhile to use as a hook to show your request is reasonable and valid!

I'd love to get a solicitor onto this. You could try posting in Legal on MN.

Or try one of the newspapers. Some have those columns where you write in with your problem and it sounds as if yours is current and common so they might take it up for you. I think the Saturday Telegraph do one, but I'm not sure.

We had a rental in July where they asked us to leave at 9 instead of 10 and DH just texted back and said we would be leaving at 10 as per our original contract. They didn't argue, but the cleaner was on the doorstep at 9.59 and 58 seconds! There's no requirement under government regs to start cleaning a rental at 9 rather than 10, though.

To me you have a contract for a place that sleeps 20. It's not up to them to decide whether or not you all normally live together. But I'm getting too tired of the ever-changing rules to read this latest lot.

If they won’t budge I would split the week between you (with a little bit of overlap so you maybe see each other for lunch/a walk outdoors) and ask for some free extra days either side so you each get say three nights (if doable with kids).

Is your name Dominic Cummings? Or are you a crony of the PM? If so obviously don't worry about it just do what you like.
If not maybe invite Dom or Dido to come with you.
Or can you perhaps use the testing your eyesight as an excuse?

What kind of a property is it? Is there an option that you could put some tents up in the garden? You could put the 6 of the older generation in the house and the rest of you could camp. Then you could at least spend some time socially distanced time together. Might be an option to at least salvage something if you exhaust all avenues of getting a refund.
Is the property is in Wales or Scotland? Children don't count towards the 6 if so x

Am not sure OP whether you are renting this property through one of the larger Holiday Cottage groups or privately.

Earlier this year I went through a similar situation with Sykes Cottages. Boris locked us down, Sykes refused to refund our Cottage costs.

Despite numerous avoiding tactics from Sykes, refusal to answer phones, ignoring emails etc, I battled on a number of fronts.

I involved my Credit Card company (despite having only paid a £60 booking fed through them) , made an Insurance claim (refused), complained to the CMA, complained on Trustpilot, etc.

I also contacted my Home Insurance company which gave me Legal cover and they said they would get involved if necessary.

It took me 3 months and 35 emails, including several to the CEO’s personal email address (found during a google search) before I got a wiff of success.

Of all avenues it was the CMA that came up trumps. They got involved and instructed Sykes to refund me. I got every penny back!!

Apart from the lesson that I will never again book a holiday through any of the Sykes stable of companies, I learned that it really can pay to be tenacious. Just because Sykes said no, it didn’t mean that I had to accept no for an answer.

Goid luck. I hope you can resolve your situation.

If you all take guns you are a shooting party and therefore exempt from the Rule of 6.

@rslsys

You win, top idea!

Bit naughty but presumably they aren't going to come count you, so a bigger question might be whether you're happy to break the guidelines (which may well have changed by then anyway at this rate).