Challenging school fines or referrals to safeguarding for keeping children home

[MotherOfDragonite]

Just that really.

I'm alarmed by the lack of testing and/or track and trace activity, plus the increasingly high rates of community transmission (which must be higher than we can see from the data as so many are unable to get tests at all).

Seriously considering keeping my child off school.

My mother is shielding and in our support bubble. If we quarantine for 2-3 weeks we can return to her home and isolate with her to look after the children while I work. She is a retired teacher and the children flourished with her over lockdown.

I am clinically vulnerable (but not 'highly vulnerable' IYSWIM) due to my weight (suspect fatness is a less sympathy-inducing reason than other medical things, but there you go). I am a single parent with no back-up care for my children should I become unwell and unable to care for them. They are in two different settings -- the private nursery is no problem as they will save our space as long as I keep paying the fees, and there is no obligation to attend. School is a different matter. The head teacher is very gung ho about getting back to normal and basically implied I was being irrationally anxious when I expressed concerns. I think she will fine me and I am worried she will refer me to social services or educational safeguarding or whatever it is.

Is anyone taking legal or campaigning action to challenge this?

I know we can deregister and home school, but I don't want to home school in the long run, the school is really wonderful and I definitely want my child to return as soon as it is safer.

Any pointers or recommendations for how others in the same situation are dealing with this?

Remain on school roll

I am so angry about this. Why the hell should we have to deregister? My kids had to stay home for so long when we were shielding through lockdown. I have sent them back to school (reluctantly) because I know that their education and mental well-being is important. I was hopeful that the 'world beating' test and trace system would keep us safe (I was under no illusions that the pantomime of hand washing and staggered starts would). 7 days in the first one is off with a cold, 2 days later the next one is (same or different, no idea, they're at different schools and bugs spreading wildly in both). Parents on FB and WhatsApp talking about sending their kids in with a cough or when they've had a temperature because they can't get tests. It's probably just colds because the numbers are low here but if we were in Bolton where 10% of tests are coming back positive?

Home educating them long term is not in their best interests. I don't want to deregister them. We will lose their school places. My choice is to send them in and risk them bringing it home to me (as they have with this cold) or break the law and pay a fine or screw them over by taking away their school place. It's a bloody outrage.

@Lumene some children are out of school for months because they are unwell, mentally or physically. Should we give away their places to other children too?

Don't deregister! If you do that you're supporting a system that penalises parents/children for being vulnerable. It's disgusting that someone up thread even mentioned another kid might want that space. Is this humanity, 2020 version?

@Lumene

The other thing is that this is the 21st century. We have the internet,it is a resource that we are only barely tapping into for education. Schools can learn to use it better,it is a great opportunity.

Great, I look forward to the pilot project you set up to show how this is possible and how you will get the resources to make it happen, so it can be rolled out across the country.

Well the Universities,you may have heard, are planning to do a lot (in some cases effectively all) of their teaching online. I am peripherally involved in University teaching and went to an conference about this in June and it's impressive what is now available.

I realise you are meaning to be sarcastic and undermine my reasonable points, but in fact there are a lot of resources out there which can convey information very well. And also the work has been done on putting together the platforms from which this can be delivered.

I'd certainly agree that there are issues around motivation and distraction.

I was an utter swot. I would on one level have had a rotten time in lockdown in terms of environment, but I got through an awful lot by having my head buried in a book, and children who are interested in science, say, can find a lot of information on the internet. Mine have.

On the other hand, even some children enrolled in expensive secondary schools have disengaged in the past few months, and the internet offers distractions and temptations. So there are pluses and minuses, but we can exploit the pluses.

And I personally am not doing a pilot experiment, but if you read up about this at all, you will see that there is a huge amount happening with online teaching internationally, a huge amount of secondary school teaching in the States will be online this fall.

It could make excellent resources available globally to intelligent students, it could be very wonderful, we need to think about safety and protecting students as well.

I can understand your reasons but I think you have a bit of entitlement to think you can not send your child to school for an unknown amount of time but expect them to hold a place for her and not follow through with the absence procedures.
Just deregister and do as you please.

Thank you for the pointer to the Facebook group, @Keepdistance. That looks potentially useful.

I definitely don't want to home school and my mother is only happy to do it on an emergency basis -- she has a life too, which this is interrupting, but she sees it as an emergency situation and is truly worried for us.

I really don't want to deregister, we really love the school and want the place! If I knew the risk was being mitigated by proper testing and track & trace, I would immediately send my child in.

I mean, we did go in. We are now off as we are symptomatic (cough, although I don't think it's Covid as she sat next to a little boy with a cough who had a negative Covid test last week so I presume she caught his non-Covid test -- but you never know and we've been advised to stay off regardless and test). I was so shocked to find how impossible it was to get tests (it took me over 48 hours of refreshing the site constantly and even then I was very lucky compared to other school parents) and how long the test results were taking to come back (median 3.5 days for home tests, which may already have taken days to get on the website).

I was just shocked by what a shambles it was and it didn't feel safe. I would be happy to go in if the risk was being managed and the R rate wasn't shooting up like it is. I don't even think we know the half of it -- Dido Harding said on the news tonight that demand for tests is four times supply!

Thank you for the reassurance @shinynewapple2020. My child has always had good attendance figures. We wouldn't be able to see anyone in person though as we would be shielding with my mum who is extremely vulnerable. Hopefully they would be happy to do any reassurance checks via Zoom.

To be honest I haven't really decided what to do. It was so lovely to be back for a week and feel like life was a bit normal again.

I would really like it if they continued the policy that they had at the end of the summer term when schools returned -- children could return, but parents wouldn't be fined or punished in any way if they didn't. I feel like that would better allow us all to manage our levels of risk, which are different for every family. For example my risk tolerance is probably a bit lower than a two-parent family, as I am conscious that if I got very ill I might be unable to care for my children and they might have to be temporarily taken into care (a truly horrible thought). But my risk tolerance is probably higher that somebody who is either extremely clinically vulnerable, or whose child is.

@Moondust001

If you don't want your child in school, that's fair enough. But you shouldn't then expect to keep that place for when you decide you want it. I'm sure there will be other children who would want the place your child is taking up. Take your pick, but don't want your cake and eat it.

What??? It’s not sustainable at the moment. You’d have a valid point if the current situation with schools wasn’t getting worse by the day!

@JayDot500

Don't deregister! If you do that you're supporting a system that penalises parents/children for being vulnerable. It's disgusting that someone up thread even mentioned another kid might want that space. Is this humanity, 2020 version?

Exactly this! We need to stay and make lots of noise. Fining would be political suicide. It’s an idle threat and if it’s not then at least they’ll never get elected again.

@sunseekin Yes, I guess this is why I was asking if there were any legal challenges or campaigns already. It feels like a wider issue that must affect more people than just us!

Those telling parents to “just deregister” are no better than a boss who force staff out via constructive dismissal. There’ll be legal repercussions for schools that force deregeristing under duress.

They also lack basic maths skills when understanding the risk of a pandemic. So I guess it’s good they’re not considering home schooling

I don’t know of a coordinated campaign. People are already deregistering so it’s urgently needed.

Councils are starting the fine route already though.

There is a closed petition that’s waiting for a parliamentary debate, called “No prosecution for parents that remove child from school during a pandemic“. I don’t know what’s happening there but it has answers from before summer about dropping fines.

See BRTUS (boycott return to unsafe schools) Facebook group for many in a similar position.

Just say they've got coughs and you can't get a test. That gets you two weeks. Rinse and repeat.

@Lumene

and I have fought for 7 years for the right support for my child. I am not going to jeopardise that support, and risk a future special school place by deregistering...and neither should I have to.

That sounds really tough and you are obviously doing an amazing job for your child.

But there are many many others in similar shoes. Why should their child not be offered the place if they judge it in their best interests and your child isn’t in school?

It's frustrating

We are adhering to the guidelines.
Dh is testing his hair out wrt work. Older sisters are missing school and getting behind on work.

I have already given up my part time job because of lockdown

I agree with the self isolation guidelines, I hoped they would protect ds, but with no functioning testing system, and parents already lying at his school the only option we can see is to keep him home.

Of course if I keep him home, I am told that I should deregister him because it is unfair to take up a school place, or should be fined.

I have spent the last 10 years stuck between a rock and a hard place, I'm pretty used to it here. I used to spend my time helping other parents fight for their children in the way that I have had to...I am well aware of the travesty that is the 1000s of children with SEN who do not have placements (and am amazed at how this is suddenly in the spotlight, and used as a weapon to bash patents like me). My child missed huge chunks of school last year due to operations, appointments and illness - should that mean he should have his school place taken away? Deregistering would also mean the loss of all that hard fought for EHCP support as well, don't forget. What % attendance would your cut off be?

A child's needs should be at the heart of SEN provision and their education - supported by patents, school and professionals - I am trying very hard to do this in the best possible way. Do not throw simple platitudes at me. You have no idea.

A mum at my school said people should deregister if they take them out. In our time at juniors her kids have have had nearly three months off for holidays. Should parents who get two of three cheap term time holidays a year deregister?

I don't really think that wanting to manage your risk in a pandemic is the same as not taking up a school place because you don't really want it.

@herecomesthsun

No. You are being inhumane and you don't understand the nature of pandemics. This is a very unusual situation with significant risks which are substantially greater for vulnerable people.

We should be thinking very carefully about what the priorities are and also about the acute risks.

In the medium term, education of course is a huge priority. But in the immediate term we need to prioritise preservation of life and health, especially for a vulnerable person, especially where there is a pathogen that is poorly understood.

I suggest that you educate yourself on the situation with coronavirus, since you have a poor understanding of what we are facing, and get yourself some humanity.

This ❤️ I think there must be Tory moles deliberately inciting callous attitudes. I don’t think they do their case any good though. Thanks for posting compassionate common sense.

@MotherOfDragonite

I don't really think that wanting to manage your risk in a pandemic is the same as not taking up a school place because you don't really want it.

Exactly! Especially when what is on offer is crumbling. I’ll consider it if the provision starts to look sustainable. We are nowhere nearby that point. Go with your gut and look out for your family as best as you can - nobody else will.

Also staying registered gives you access to the home learning g when the class do move to that
And any online systems (mathletics etc)

Can schools deregister your child without your consent if the child doesn't attend?

To be honest I think the anti mask parents are out on their own
Everyone has seen how hard it is to get a test
How easily things are spread at school
How much time they could have to take off.
I would think most teachers are now in faviour. And if not the gov will end up sued. They cannot argue it's safe their own guidance says as cases are dropping but they arent

[quote MotherOfDragonite]@sunseekin Yes, I guess this is why I was asking if there were any legal challenges or campaigns already. It feels like a wider issue that must affect more people than just us![/quote]
BRTUS is the closest I know too, also watching the no fines for parents with interest.

On the upside, the first person with a fine should get quite a good newspaper headline. The government are an absolute joke.

Remind your head he still has discretion. I suspect that fact will be used against them when all the fall out with mental health etc happens after the guidelines are long forgotten about.

They’ll blame the heads just like they blamed the care homes.

I am pretty sure there is a code C for exceptional circumstances that the head still have at their discretion for exceptional circumstances.

I am also going to write to my GP so these mental health concerns surrounding our situation go on record. At least I’ll ask our head if this could help.

I am on good terms with the school at the moment and will remain on good terms but there are definitely routes to explore.

If I do have to deregister it will outline exactly how I feel under duress and I believe any reasonable person (which is what our law is based on) would feel under duress in my circumstances.