Is it really safe to return to school?

[MrsHookey]

Child is in school. 4 year groups have been sent home to self isolate. Is this a widespread thing? Is it relatively safe to have the child back at school?

@Howslifenow

But are the cases being transmitted in schools between children and adults. We were told it would not happen. But if it does what is the ppint of local lockdown when schools will be opened and kids parents staff can transmit the disease. The Government has to clarify. Mental health is fine but schools should not be a breeding ground for Covid.

Not being unkind....but I am not entirely sure how anyone could believe then when they said it wouldn't happen. They're schools....germs spread. It was always inevitable

I'm in Belgium. I am seeing reports of schools or parts of schools being closed but at the moment is it because the teachers are getting ill/quarantined. Hospitalisations have doubled over the last 2 weeks. I think it's more likely to be people coming back from holiday. 77 tested positive after a "clubbing" week in Portugal.

But are the cases being transmitted in schools between children and adults. We were told it would not happen. But if it does what is the ppint of local lockdown when schools will be opened and kids parents staff can transmit the disease.

One way to think of it is this. First you have to accept education is vital for children. Then... Schools don't create the virus. They can only transmit it if it is already in the community. So the fewer infections in the community the safer schools are. Local lockdowns make the both the community and the schools safer.

@CokeEnStock

Can you explain the Belgian rule of 5 please? If there is a family of 6 and a family of 4, can they socialise? It looks like the 6 can socialise with the 4 but not the other way round which makes no sense.

One way to think of it is this. First you have to accept education is vital for children. Then... Schools don't create the virus. They can only transmit it if it is already in the community. So the fewer infections in the community the safer schools are. Local lockdowns make the both the community and the schools safer.

Sounds good in theory. 1 kid has got it. Goes to school. Passes it to others in school. Everyone goes home in evening and passes to their families, public transport. We have already missed the window for keeping the virus cases low.

[quote notevenat20]@CokeEnStock

Can you explain the Belgian rule of 5 please? If there is a family of 6 and a family of 4, can they socialise? It looks like the 6 can socialise with the 4 but not the other way round which makes no sense.[/quote]
Your HOUSEHOLD can see 5 other people. It doesn't matter how many are in your household to start with. But they are the same 5 people. So hence you could see both sets of GPS and your best friend, but that's it. You can't chop and change. And really you are still meant to SD and wear a mask if you can't.

I haven't heard anything about mask exemptions in Belgium either. Secondary schools kids have to wear them all the time except when eating lunch. You have to wear one in public at all times. Shops will not admit your without one. You can be fined. No smoking or eating whilst walking in the street either.

@CokeEnStock

Thank you but I think I am being dim. Say your household of 6 people want to meet a household of 4 people and you agree that is going to be your stable set of friends. It seems you can meet them because 4 is less than 5 but they can't meet you because 6 is more than 5. I suspect I have missed something simple.

For people who want to be able to educate at home without losing their school place, how do you want that to work? I’m struggling to see how it could be possible without further disrupting the education of an entire generation.

Do you expect support with teaching from your school or the government, or do you want to home educate independently? What should the expectation on these parents be - do we expect them to keep their children up to speed with exactly what they’d be covering at school so they can (relatively) easily slot back in when they want the place again, or do we expect teachers and the children that stayed in school to take the hit on catching them up?
How long do you think it’s reasonable that places are kept open for?
Should anyone be allowed to do it or only those who can prove they are vulnerable, and then, what would count as vulnerable enough?
Do you think the school should receive the same level of funding for a child that is not there for a significant amount of time? What about the cost to the LA in ensuring that much larger numbers are safe and are being adequately educated at home?
Is it really fair that there are children on waiting lists for some schools who would benefit from a place that isn’t being used?

[quote notevenat20]@CokeEnStock

Thank you but I think I am being dim. Say your household of 6 people want to meet a household of 4 people and you agree that is going to be your stable set of friends. It seems you can meet them because 4 is less than 5 but they can't meet you because 6 is more than 5. I suspect I have missed something simple.[/quote]
Oh I see what you mean now! Duh! Well technically speaking that's not allowed 😂. Though maybe they don't count the children? As the kids are mixing with more than 5 people certainly that would make sense. I am going to investigate. I don't think anyone is policing family get togethers and they expect us to show common sense.

@CokeEnStock

Thanks! I look forward to hearing from you,

We have already missed the window for keeping the virus cases low.

That’s pessimistic. They were pretty low in August and can be that low again.

@NailsNeedDoing For people who want to be able to educate at home without losing their school place, how do you want that to work? I’m struggling to see how it could be possible without further disrupting the education of an entire generation.

A few months for a few children will not "disrupt the education of an entire generation".

Do you expect support with teaching from your school or the government, or do you want to home educate independently?

Personally? I don't want to home educate permanently. Just for a few months while there is an effing pandemic raging and the worst case scenario prospect of 80-120k deaths. Which the testing fiasco has done nothing to avert.

What should the expectation on these parents be - do we expect them to keep their children up to speed with exactly what they’d be covering at school so they can (relatively) easily slot back in when they want the place again, or do we expect teachers and the children that stayed in school to take the hit on catching them up? It depends a bit of course on the parents. We are fortunate enough to be able to do University level tuition on quite a few of the subjects. We think overall we can do a reasonable job for a few months but don't want this permanently, we think school would be better for the kids long term.

How long do you think it’s reasonable that places are kept open for? till next year.

Should anyone be allowed to do it or only those who can prove they are vulnerable, and then, what would count as vulnerable enough? We're pretty vulnerable. Denmark suggested that it was desirable for anyone to homeschool who could, for safety, this gives lower class sizes. I think there are a lot of advantages to that.

Do you think the school should receive the same level of funding for a child that is not there for a significant amount of time? yes
What about the cost to the LA in ensuring that much larger numbers are safe and are being adequately educated at home? In a pandemic there are real safety advantages in being at home as discussed re Denmark. It's unreasonable to keep kids in small overstuffed classrooms in a pandemic just for social policing. If families are doing the work of education for the government, it seems reasonable for a small amount to be spent on checking the smaller number are ok at home.

Is it really fair that there are children on waiting lists for some schools who would benefit from a place that isn’t being used?

The place would be used in the medium to long term. Is it fair that just because a child has a parent who has an illness, or is ill themselves, they should be robbed of their school place and shunted off somewhere else? Because I think that is ridiculous.

@middleager
You might be in local lockdown, but we are not and at my school there is plenty of grandparents in the school yard everyday.

[quote notevenat20]@CokeEnStock

Thanks! I look forward to hearing from you,[/quote]
Each household (people living under the same roof) may meet up to five people, always the same people. In this instance, keeping a distance of 1.5 metres is not mandatory. This is the social bubble. Children under the age of 12 are not included in this bubble of 5 people. This limit of 5 people must be observed in order to avoid the rapid spread of the virus. Every citizen must be able to draw up a list of all persons with whom they have had close contacts and, if necessary, transmit this information to the contact tracing centres. Social distancing of 1.5 meters should always be respected when meeting people who do not belong to the same social bubble. Group gatherings are limited to a maximum of ten people, excluding children younger than 12. This applies to all gatherings, regardless of whether they take place at home or outdoors (e.g. in a bar, in a cafe, in the park, etc.).

So these are the rules. I think the answer is SD, but like all the rules everywhere I am not entirely sure 😂

@NailsNeedDoing my school have put all their lessons online, to be used as and when kids are isolating. So in theory, my son can follow the work exactly. But instead I'm being referred to education safeguarding for taking him out because there are high numbers in our area and I'm a single parent, with no support, I'm ECV and he's CV. We're fully shielding again, but I'm being persecuted for it.

Thank you for answering @herecomesthsun

A few months for a few children will not "disrupt the education of an entire generation

It’s more than a few months though, it’s already been more than a few months and if you want it to continue to next year, then you’re talking about a year or more. I’d say that’s pretty disruptive to education, there’s data about low attendance having a significant impact in normal times and it’s not positive.

Personally? I don't want to home educate permanently. Just for a few months while there is an effing pandemic raging and the worst case scenario prospect of 80-120k deaths. Which the testing fiasco has done nothing to avert.

With respect, that doesn’t really answer the question. In the time that you do want to educate, do you want to do it alone or have it arranged by the school?

It depends a bit of course on the parents. We are fortunate enough to be able to do University level tuition on quite a few of the subjects. We think overall we can do a reasonable job for a few months but don't want this permanently, we think school would be better for the kids long term. Again, that doesn’t really answer the question. Government policies on this can’t be made on the assumption that every parent can educate to a decent level, a significant number of parents would struggle to primary level. Even those parents who could make a good job of it may not be able to for various reasons, so it’s something that would need enormous consideration.

We're pretty vulnerable. Denmark suggested that it was desirable for anyone to homeschool who could, for safety, this gives lower class sizes. I think there are a lot of advantages to that. That comes back to the same point as above really. ‘Anyone who could’ is totally subjective. Who gets to make and enforce the judgement on whether a parent is capable enough of providing a decent education if they decide they want to try? The government has a responsibility to ensure that children receive their right to a good education, and while a just over one long term out of school for the majority of children was an acceptable step to take considering the pandemic, any more than that does become significantly detrimental.

I agree with you that whatever the cost of the best solution it should be met, and I don’t have strong feelings either way really about the issue of waiting list children, but I’m sure it would matter greatly to some.

From your posts I can see why it must seem hugely unfair that you can’t temporarily home educate without being penalised, and I’d agree that if these things could be decided on a case by case basis then you should be able to crack on and do what’s best for your family as long as you take responsibility for facilitating it. Unfortunately though, the government always has to look at the worst case scenarios when making decisions at a national level, and I just can’t see how it would be possible to make sure every child was safe and educated at the same time as allowing large numbers of parents to keep their children at home if they feel like it.

@Clairaloulou hopefully when educational welfare see that your son is still being educated then they’ll see that there is no cause for concern, but it’s not wrong for them to check.

You’re in a fortunate position if your son can still receive lessons online, I can’t imagine that the majority of schools have the capability of providing that, not should it be expected of the teachers.

Swiss schools went back on the 15th May until the end of June. They returned the middle of August and next week is the end of the first half term.
My experiences:
A primary school had a covid positive brother and sister.85 children and teachers were isolated. non caught covid. The Swiss say under tens do not transmit the virus.
In my daughter's secondary school. since August a 17 year old and a 15 year old tested positive. they picked up their infection from family. no other children tested positive. we have a mobile phone track and trace app tbat is compulsory in school in secondary.plus the children wear masks if they are in a small room with only 1m distance. Hope this reassures you all in the uk xx
.

No less safe than any other flu season, or chicken pox, norrivirus, scarlet fever and all the other illnesses that sweep around classrooms every year.

Just don't stick pins in the wall incase you release asbestos. Teaching is a surprisingly high risk career for mesothelioma.

@NailsNeedDoing yes we are very lucky, our school is excellent and does so much for the kids.

I'm hopeful that it will all turn out ok. We're back under lockdown from tue (Covid must be having a long weekend off) so that kind of supports my case. I just wish the govt would give the vulnerable the option to shield.