Helpful clarification of symptoms of Covid vs cold/other virus by Covid Symptom Study app developer

[FallingIguanas]

I know there is a lot of confusion surrounding this.

Jeremy Vine on BBC R2 (can relisten via BBC Sounds) at start of his programme is discussing differential symptoms with the developer of Covid symptom study app Tim Spectre, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology, KCL.

In summary, he states if you have any of the 3 classic symptoms - get tested. He refers to a persistent cough and a tested (rather than to the touch) fever.

Mild symptoms including runny nose or swollen glands, unlikely to be Covid.

He stated in 80% of positive cases, severe fatigue and severe persistent headaches were also present.

Shortness of breath is an indicator in adults but usually after a few days.

Diarrhoea is positively associated with Covid, especially in children, but this is usually accompanied with one or more of the 3 main symptoms and/or the severe fatigue and persistent headaches.

I appreciate others on here may have experience of positive cases with milder or different symptoms but personally I found his information clear and would help me decide if a test for me or DC was necessary.

Yes heard him radio earlier this morning. Very clear on the difference between covid and cold symptoms.

That's interesting- I'm awaiting test results and aside from the classic symptoms requiring a test had one of the worst headaches I've experienced for the first 24 hours which then faded to a dull ache. I've been assuming I'm going to get a negative result as I now seem to have a classic bad cold but we will see!

That's helpful thank you

It's interesting to hear but it makes no difference to what the government say. I.e. if you have a cough, the household must isolate until you have a negative test. It's helpful to know that it's unlikely covid but it doesn't affect anyone's course of action (or shouldn't).

They need to get his information to schools, and get them to abide by it, and fast.

if you have a cough, the household must isolate until you have a negative test

Did the government ever, actually, say that?

@Baaaahhhhh

if you have a cough, the household must isolate until you have a negative test

Did the government ever, actually, say that?

Yeah the government is pretty clear that a cough means the whole household should isolate.

I think the guidance from Prof Tim Spector is very useful. It may stop employers and schools sending home people with classic cold symptoms and not classic Covid-19 symptoms. That would ease the pressure on the testing system so only those with classic Covid-19 symptoms present for testing and those with colds can continue education and work.

Apologies to him for incorrect surname spelling in my OP.

I'm going to listen to it now but did he say what happens if you have a mild cough as a result of a runny nose? Should you still be tested?

According to his table, a mild cough and runny nose are a cold and not Covid-19

@Baaaahhhhh yes, yes they did. They have been saying it for months and continue to say it. It's categoric and put my family in isolation for four days. If the government didn't say it I have just had the weirdest dream...

Table even says a runny or blocked nose are rare with Covid-19. So about 90% of the kids off school should be in school on that basis.

And finally someone who is an expert says that a mild cough is a symptom of a cold not Covid-19.

I do wish he had specified more about the Covid-19 cough though, e.g. that it is dry not productive.
Most the coughs that people have now that are mucousy will be cold-related, and as a PP suggests, due to the runny nose and mucus from the airways, not Covid-19.

I may be wrong about this but didn't the Zoe app find that a lot of kids with positive Covid tests had runny noses, sore throats, head aches and fatigue so typical cold symptoms.

@ProperlyPdOff

Table even says a runny or blocked nose are rare with Covid-19. So about 90% of the kids off school should be in school on that basis.

People are arguing you might have a cold and covid at the same time (although I agree they are most likely to have a cold and it is leading to too many children off school and testing collapsing)

It would be great if they could write new guidance for schools!

As interesting as this is, it's very hard to build public health policy on something this complex.

The current situation is that if you have a fever OR a persistent cough OR a loss or change is taste or smell, you should isolate and have a test. Even that is pretty ambiguous in practice - is the cough really persistent, has my sense of taste changed enough, should I measure my temperature or just gauge, is there a temperature above which I must isolate?

Adding a whole complicated matrix like this into the mix - along with human nature in both directions (those who worry and will isolate and seek a test when unnecessary and those that will seek to continue as normal despite showing symptoms) won't actually help, in my opinion.

The problem is with so many winter viruses, colds and bugs, so many of the symptoms overlap. That's why testing needs to be efficient and accessible.
Blocked or runny nose have never been listed as a symptom of covid, however they can cause, or are often accompanied by a cough (of varying degrees....often more than 3 times in 24 hours) when you get a cold.

Though for children, only half of of positive cases have the typical “adult” symptoms of cough, fever, loss of smell
covid.joinzoe.com/post/back-to-school

My child’s main symptoms were runny nose, hoarse voice and an occasional cough, no fever.

The table has been created from data that has been collected since the start of the outbreak.

Another member of the study team was just on Sky saying similar things. A mild cough is not a reason to be sent home or get a test. A mild cough with a temperature would be - but that's the temperature criteria really.
In cases where cough is main symptom with no other symptoms such as temperature or loss of smell/taste, it does tend to be a bad cough.
The study member on Sky was saying that a high temperature was definitely a reason to get a test. She was clear on that.

I think there are differences between what people are told by the Zoe app and the COVID Symptom Study app, which will lead to more confusion!

This advice was just repeated on bbc late news. Wonder if the govt have approved it and will change their official advice?