In Germany you have to go through gp to get a test

[avenueq]

I think that's true in most areas at least?
Probably a better idea, but could it work here?

Are you Stephen Donnelly's mum??

In fairness, like pps, family who've needed a test in different parts of the country have all had a phone assessment within an hour or two and a same-day test with results within 36 hours or so. It does seem to be working ok currently.

The Hausarzt system is actually completely different to the UK GP system, especially as we can change "GP" on a weekly basis should we so desire (though obviously that would usually be unwise if any ongoing conditions existed etc) and can always go same day especially if willing to go to the Bereitschaft Praxis.

Also you only have to phone your Hausarzt and say please give me a reference number for a test, my symptoms are xyz. You don't have to physically go to the practice nor in fact speak to the doctor (the receptionist - and they aren't actually receptionists here but doctor's assistants with 3 years of healthcare training) can nip in and quickly get the ok from the Hausarzt and issue the number over the phone.

Also any health care or social care employer can issue their own tests to residents and employees without involving each person's separate Hausarzt.

There doesn't seem to be a shortage of tests, there are far more GPs per head of population, the entire system is better funded because we all pay 15.5% of our pre tax income just for healthcare.

@bruffin

My DH simply booked a drive through test online (also Netherlands). Without the GP. This was three weeks ago or so? He got tested the next day and had the result the day after that (tbf they said it would take a day longer for the result to come in). 3 weeks ago my dh was sent home from in the UK, went on line got a drive in test within half an hour and got the results back at 6am next morning, so no different. They are testing on average 227000 a day and only 3k are positive, that is just over 1% which to me means that people are testing unnecessarily.

In Germany they are only testing 1.79 tests per 1000 where as we are 2.76 per tests per 1000

Are those figures now true? Last week on some of the threads they were talking about manipulation of the stats to indicate almost 300,000 tests were being actually done, when really that figure was for "capacity" of numbers of tests and the reality was more like 60,000 and some of those were having to be sent abroad to be processed. I don't know if that's been clarified by the govt yet.

GPs dont have the capacity to do this in the UK.

Plus youd then get people with covid turning up at the gp which defeats the point of trying to keep vulnerable people away from covid patients. (see story yesterday about people turning up at bolton a and e trying to get a test)

This also delays the length of time it takes to get a test and get a result. For track and trace to be effective this turnaround should be under 48 hrs and preferably within 24.

So a) going through the gp wont shorten the time taken betwern wanting a test and getting a result.
b) it will put pressure on already stretched gp services and risk gp services if a gp gets infected as a result of this
c) it will needlessly expose vulnerable patients to cross infection (applies even if consultation is done via video call as you will inevitably get idiots turning up at gp)
d) We are comparing Germany, a country with a significantly higher number of doctors per head of population to the uk. Spot the problem.

Yet this is what the government were last night considering according to the newspapers.

Let me spell out why. Because if they do that, its the fault of local GPs and not the complete failure of track and trace which they are directly responsible for. This means they can dilute public anger at them and instead direct it at GPs. Possibly with the risk of harm to those GPs both in terms of Covid but also from violence from desparate and angry people.

It probably would have made sense to do this rather than giving lots of money to a private firm that clearly isn’t up to the job. GPs and local health services would do a better job of contact tracing too.

But it would need to be a funded separate service run by gps rather than via standard appointment

I had to call my gp 25 times yesterday morning before it finally rang, then I spent almost 20 minutes on hold. It wouldn't work here.

Wouldn't that just potentially delay tests even more?

I needed a test last week. I logged on in the evening and managed to get a walk through test the next afternoon. The nearest drive through one was in the next town but there were no home tests available. Results took 66 hours to come through.

That's long enough without adding another day or two on top to get an appointment with a GP. Chances are they'd not have you come in anyway so it would be a telephone call or zoom call where they can't examine you or take a temperature either. Most they could do would be to listen to a cough perhaps but that's not quite the same really.

@Bluelinings

It probably would have made sense to do this rather than giving lots of money to a private firm that clearly isn’t up to the job. GPs and local health services would do a better job of contact tracing too.

You over estimate the british public and trust then not to just turn up at the gp when they cant get through on the phone or the Internet to book an appointment.

This would go catastrophically wrong. For the vulnerable patients who HAVE to attend a face to face appointment and are stuck in a waiting room with an idiot who is arguing the toss with a poor receptionist who is directly exposed both to risk and cross infecting vulnerable patients.

It’s the same here in Switzerland. Phone doctors, get appointment same day, wait outside and wave to receptionist, mask on and escorted to a room well away from other patients for test. Results next day at 8am.

Switzerland has 9 million people to cover, but different. France is using GP’s, it’s not going so well www.thelocal.fr/20200909/covid-19-why-testing-one-million-people-a-week-is-giving-france-a-real-headache

Yes Switzerland is of course much smaller and our health care is privatized (so costs a fortune) but very happy to have it right now!

Firstly, how hard do you find it to get a GP appointment already? Is it sensible to further clogg primary care

Secondly, there isn’t any data to suggest that the lack of availability is because large numbers are getting inappropriate tests. Is it not more likely a result of schools going back and the unfortunate reality that symptoms of coronavirus being very similar to other viruses. I don’t think rationing will help that situation. Only increased testing capacity will help.

Greaterthanthesumoftheparts

Yes Switzerland is of course much smaller and our health care is privatized (so costs a fortune) but very happy to have it right now!

Yes, great system, but we aren’t allowed to touch our precious precious NHS

@Bluelinings

It probably would have made sense to do this rather than giving lots of money to a private firm that clearly isn’t up to the job. GPs and local health services would do a better job of contact tracing too.

Where do you think they are going to get the resources for that? Or do you think they are ordinarily sat around twiddling their thumbs?

The NHS doesn’t have the resources available to set up and implement the testing system without the help of externals. Didn’t need to be Deloitte but needed to be an organisation with the resources available. From what I hear, the NHS, including GPs is pretty stretched at the best of times...

And it’s not distribution of tests that’s the problem. It’s laboratory capacity. So using the GP network wouldn’t help.

@Greaterthanthesumoftheparts

It’s the same here in Switzerland. Phone doctors, get appointment same day, wait outside and wave to receptionist, mask on and escorted to a room well away from other patients for test. Results next day at 8am.

It’s the same in the UK if you go for a private test.