Hancock says Covid tests are now having to be prioritised, with further restrictions possible

[JS87]

According to the Guardian, Matt Hancock is speaking in HoC and said:
We’ve seen a sharp rise in people coming forward for a test, including those who are not eligible.

And throughout this pandemic we have prioritised testing according to need. Over the summer, when demand was low, we were able to meet all requirements for testing, whether priorities or not.

But as demand has risen, so we are having to prioritise once again. And I do not shirk from decisions about prioritisation. They are not always comfortable, but they are important.

The top priority is, and always has been, acute clinical care.

The next priority is social care, where we’re now sending over 100,000 tests a day because we’ve all seen the risks this virus poses in care homes.

We’ll set out in full an updated prioritisation and I do not rule out further steps to make sure tests are used according to those priorities. It is a choice that we must make.

exploited this pandemic as a way of awarding massive contracts to private companies and decimating public health in the process

Quite. I posted something similar yesterday. The number of people who don't seem to be aware of this is appalling. It's too easy to blame the media. Anyone who chooses newspapers that headline the Duchess of Cambridge's photography competition (or whatever) rather than exposing corruption in Westminster must bear most of the responsibility for their ignorance. I hope none of them are bleating about their inability to get a hip replacement in a few years.

@NoSquirrels Care homes have all locked down & tightened procedures and are generally probably now at lower risk than the general population as long as their staff can be robustly tested when needed Do you have any evidence for that? I know it is only anecdotal but the only people I know who have had it are in care homes except for one HCP and their partner. The only outbreak I know of personally is a care home (not the one I work in) and I said above my experience is care homes (staff and residents) aren't getting frequent tests unless you call one test months ago frequent.

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague

exploited this pandemic as a way of awarding massive contracts to private companies and decimating public health in the process

Quite. I posted something similar yesterday. The number of people who don't seem to be aware of this is appalling. It's too easy to blame the media. Anyone who chooses newspapers that headline the Duchess of Cambridge's photography competition (or whatever) rather than exposing corruption in Westminster must bear most of the responsibility for their ignorance. I hope none of them are bleating about their inability to get a hip replacement in a few years.

What have you read that covers it?

I avoid all papers, only listen to R4, I’d like to know more about empty NHS labs

@WhoWants2Know

I would like to know how they can say that people are having tests who don't need them.

How do they know? Are these people rocking up and saying they don't have symptoms? If that's the case, then why administer the test?

I can't see any sort of evidence reported to say people are being tested who don't need it-- other than Matt Hancock says so. And he says lots of things.

This.

After all - what is a 'slight cough' or a 'mild cough' if a 'continuous cough' is defined as 'three episodes of coughing in 24 hours'?

Surely every bloody cough comes under that definition?

So everyone getting tested is doing it out of the belief that they're doing the right thing, or because they cannot afford not to in some way (work, missed schooling etc).

I’d particularly be interested in hearing how someone could defend the decision. Or works that NHS field and what they think

in the netherlands currently everyone with cold symptoms is asked to be tested and to stay home until all symptoms are gone.
but in nl sick pay is full pay for a good few weeks.

[quote ancientgran]**@NoSquirrels* Care homes have all locked down & tightened procedures and are generally probably now at lower risk than the general population as long as their staff can be robustly tested when needed* Do you have any evidence for that? I know it is only anecdotal but the only people I know who have had it are in care homes except for one HCP and their partner. The only outbreak I know of personally is a care home (not the one I work in) and I said above my experience is care homes (staff and residents) aren't getting frequent tests unless you call one test months ago frequent.[/quote]
No, no evidence, sorry. I said "generally probably at lower risk" because care homes have been front-page news for a long time now with tightened procedures for staff and patient-visiting - they are a known at risk population because there's been a scandal already. I don't have personal experience, though.

Germany is an excellent example of the right people for the job

They do. But it is fair to point out that they achieve this by contracting out to private labs/companies, as well as an excellent Public Health System. There is nothing inherently wrong with contracting out health services. Labs, in particular, are set up and run by ex-NHS pathologists, and many provide an excellent service, as do Universities, who also come under the "private" sector.

@Baaaahhhhh

Germany is an excellent example of the right people for the job

They do. But it is fair to point out that they achieve this by contracting out to private labs/companies, as well as an excellent Public Health System. There is nothing inherently wrong with contracting out health services. Labs, in particular, are set up and run by ex-NHS pathologists, and many provide an excellent service, as do Universities, who also come under the "private" sector.

That is a fair point indeed. And I’m interested in hearing more from this side / and people in the field as sometimes black and white thinking about bad and good (private v public) isn’t the best way to go.

@RedCatBlueCat

If aprox 4% of the population live in care homes, and say an additional 4% work in care why are they getting access to 50% of the daily test capacity?

We are also responsible for an unnecessary test. Couldn't for the life of us get a single test for a child (coughing aprox every 15 mins) without getting g a test for the adult filling in the form, despite saying we were none symptomatic.

You have to fill in the form pretending to be your child.

The test booking website is really badly designed. It doesn’t take into account children at all (only questions relate to going to work). It’s like they genuinely didn’t think children would need tests!

And stop entire families testing just because one of them has symptoms. Test the one with symptoms and wait to see if it is positive.

Have to say I think children should be up there as a priority for testing - not least to keep schools open and teachers safe

People who were shielding can’t get a test, people who are vulnerable and likely to end up in hospital can’t get a test. If they had a diagnosis in the community and supportive treatments they would avoid being hospitalised.

And no one giving out the tests checks if everyone who's ordered a test has symptoms

@randomer

Does anybody have any information on us testing more than the rest of Europe please? I believe Germany is well organised with tests.

ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-tests-per-thousand-people-smoothed-7-day?tab=chart&time=2020-08-10..latest&country=BGR~HRV~DNK~EST~FRA~DEU~GRC~HUN~LVA~LUX~MLT~NLD~POL~ROU~PRT~SVK~ESP~SWE~CHE~GBR~SVN~SRB~LTU~ITA~IRL~ISL~FIN~AUT~BEL

Click on the line to select a date. UK has had one of the highest per capita rates in Europe recently, only Denmark, Malta and Luxembourg have similar or higher rates.
But you also need to look at positivity rate.

@AlandAnna

The ‘continuous’ cough is impossible to judge, it’s so subjective. I’ve managed to get a test for my son as I’m worried he’ll be excluded for 14 days if I don’t but I know he doesn’t have it. In part because we had confirmed infection back in March. I know the evidence isn’t complete yet but signs are vast vast majority only get in once.

A continuous cough is easy to assess.

Its a new cough with an episode lasting an hour, or 3 episodes in 24 hours.

Too many ppl are testing for inappropriate tests.
And schools need training. They've no right to demand unnecessary tests.

But what’s an episode? One cough?

If you’re not defining that properly you have no right to accuse schools of demanding unnecessary tests! They’re trying to follow the guidelines ffs.

A continuous cough is easy to assess.

Its a new cough with an episode lasting an hour, or 3 episodes in 24 hours.

And what's an episode? Because a lot of people are very insistent that it's a single cough - I don't think it is because then I think it would be described as 'a cough' not 'a coughing episode' but maybe I'm wrong? Either way, I don't think it is 'easy', or clear, to interpret as the guidelines are currently written.

@TheLastStarfighter..at least you managed to get a test, I have yet to manage to jump that hurdle!
We actually have a huge testing centre walking distance from my house, but there is apparently no availability for tests anywhere..when I drove past there was one car in there...I wonder if they really just dont have any tests!
Anyway, my son is required to have a test before school allow him back (it was my decision to keep him home as a precaution, maybe a mistake in hindsight) and my daughter will also not be able to go back in until then..I am worried how long that could be, they have missed so much already.:(

"Its a new cough with an episode lasting an hour, or 3 episodes in 24 hours"

So if a kid comes into a lesson coughs for say 15 minutes then stops it doesn't count?

I can just imagine what the other parents would say if schools let that slide!

If a pupil coughs after drinking water as a one off I would probably overlook it but if they had multiple instances of a cough in a lesson I'd pass it up to leadership to judge.

There was also a thread here about what people coughs were like and lots of posters said they were mild. This will probably be more likely for younger pupils.

Schools have to minimise the risks to bubbles of hundreds of kids. They will quite rightly err on the side of caution.

My child with typical cold symptoms and no fever has covid so it is definitely not as clear cut as saying "if a child has a runny nose it must just be a cold".

Re prioritisation: Hancockup has already commented on the relationship between tests being free, and demand.

Don't be surprised, therefore, if a 'nominal' charge is introduced for them. Demand will plummet!

I avoid all papers

I mean, that may be part of the problem @MarshaBradyo. You can't really expect to know what's going on if you don't read the news.

@Baaaahhhhh

Germany is an excellent example of the right people for the job

They do. But it is fair to point out that they achieve this by contracting out to private labs/companies, as well as an excellent Public Health System. There is nothing inherently wrong with contracting out health services. Labs, in particular, are set up and run by ex-NHS pathologists, and many provide an excellent service, as do Universities, who also come under the "private" sector.

I agree that private outsourcing may have benefits and can’t be demonised outright. But in the UK this seems to have become an obsession, even when it’s clearly not working (eg centralized tracing). We’ve dished out contracts:

• without a competitive tendering process (eg the £200 million contract to Serco and Sitel, the 560k given to McKinsey to come up with a ‘vision and narrative’ for NHS Test and Trace’
• extended the Serco contract DESPITE its failure to reach half of affected contacts in covid hotspots
• ignored local authorities and GPs (Germany’s 400 local health authorities played a central role in their response, including checking quarantine compliance)
• most recently, planning to scrap Public Health England and replace it with the National Institute for Health Protection under... Dido Harding. Again. Her husband is a Tory MP, part of an advisory board who called for PHE to be scrapped. What’s Harding’s track record of success again??

There isn’t one place to read about this. Anthony Costello has written about this most often though.

NHS labs have staff capacity but lack of reagant (they’re having to compete with Lighthouse labs for materials). In the last few weeks, NHS labs have been called upon to process covid tests but they’re struggling to do that because they’re using different testing kits...

(this was in the Guardian).

Slippery Lizard:

"and preventing schools from requiring a test to be obtained where none of the 3 symptoms are present."

"My DDs have both been ill since returning to school, but no cough, no temperature and no loss of taste. So we haven’t tested, or isolated, but I have heard of parents who have, some at the behest of school."

I agree. Isn't this the thing though?

don't parents need to stand up to schools and say no my child doesn't have all three symptoms? and doesn't need a test and I will be sending my child to school tomorrow.

isn't it time that parents stood up to the schools and said no this child does not need to be tested?

@Oblomov20

Slippery Lizard:

"and preventing schools from requiring a test to be obtained where none of the 3 symptoms are present."

"My DDs have both been ill since returning to school, but no cough, no temperature and no loss of taste. So we haven’t tested, or isolated, but I have heard of parents who have, some at the behest of school."

I agree. Isn't this the thing though?

don't parents need to stand up to schools and say no my child doesn't have all three symptoms? and doesn't need a test and I will be sending my child to school tomorrow.

isn't it time that parents stood up to the schools and said no this child does not need to be tested?

Parents could more effectively stand up to schools if they have the backing of a GP who decides that they don’t - under current guidance - require a test.