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What would you have done had you been in charge?

88 replies

Hellishcrusade · 09/09/2020 21:44

Let's say from January, you were in Boris Johnson's position. What would you have done when and how do you think the public would have reacted to it/ how would you have enforced it? I'd be really interested to know what people think because there's so much criticism and wildly different opinions being floated on here.
To be clear, I'm not in support of Boris particularly one way or the other and I'm definitely not smart enough to have made any good decisions! I'm just curious as to what others think as there seem to be strong opinions.

OP posts:
InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 10/09/2020 06:42

Understood that by holding the "highest position in the land" I am in fact holding a poisoned chalice - and the fact a pandemic happened on my watch - known I would never be forgiven, no matter what.

With that said. I would have:

i) Shut down hard in Feb. Borders shut aside repatriation of families.
ii) Given it 4 weeks to "rally troops" and see what the hell we were dealing with.
iii) Encourage citizens to grow a backbone.
iv) Move on with life allowing individual citizens to make choices they were personally comfortable with.
v) Hold a press conference to explain to the cheap seats at the back we can't promise immortality.
vi) Remind those frothing about Brexit that it could've been done and dusted years ago.
vii) Buy a small island to escape to after knowing that there will be those baying for my blood for all eternity.

Sailingblue · 10/09/2020 06:45

It’s really hard to judge with the benefit of hindsight but I think many European countries didn’t learn from what countries in Asia were doing and we seemed to float into trouble. A pandemic has always been one of the top risks for government but it seemed like plans weren’t updated. Furlough for example shouldn’t have been made up. It should have been planned years ago and ready to roll at a push of a button. The key worker list should have been there, plans for school disruption and online learning should have been in place. The thing that surprised me the most was how many policies were being constructed in real time. Obviously there would always been to be changes to suit the actual circs but there is a question for me about the effectiveness of pandemic planning.

The infrastructure in Feb/March wasn’t there. For all the talk about hand washing, there were no banks if sinks at major transport hubs in London. This was something so basic that could have been done but wasn’t.

February half term feels like a particular point when a different decision could have made a big difference.

Hollyhead · 10/09/2020 06:47

Although there’s lots of things I would have done differently, I’m glad a lot of you weren’t in charge given a lot of these recommendations wouldn’t have made any difference! Closing Bournemouth beach? It didn’t lead to a rise in cases! And @Graphista if the lockdown did fuck all, what did cause is to drop from approximately 100k cases a day in late March to about 500k per day by July?

The severity of the lockdown was about right - outdoor solo exercise is very low risk as is distanced supermarket shopping. I would have just implement it all sooner, I realised by about mid Feb that it was obviously here and spreading already. The problem is that it would have been very hard to get people to accept a lockdown then. People talk about the NZ response, which undoubtably excellent would not have been accepted here as to have locked down at the same stage we’d have probably had to lockdown in January. The WHO (who I blame for some of the early slowness) didn’t even confirm human to human transmission until jan 15th. My belief is it’s been here in scattered pockets since early-mid December.

Porridgeoat · 10/09/2020 06:48

I would have done lock down immediately as soon as we had numbers dying and a bubble of two families from the start to ease working situations and looking after elderly/kids.

I would have planned ahead regarding ppe and testing care staff and nhs staff.

Also not sent elderly patients in hospital home if they had Covid. Found some other way of accommodating them till the all clear was given via testing.

Old people’s homes would be on 100% lock down with staff in lockdown also while on shift for a week at a time, assisted by the army if necessary and covid testing before entering work

Hollyhead · 10/09/2020 06:48

Ha lol major error above - drop to 500 not 500k obviously! Blush

Porridgeoat · 10/09/2020 06:50

I feel like we have failed our most vulnerable

Porridgeoat · 10/09/2020 06:55

I think if we had locked down earlier and introduced masks, shop cleaning, hand sanitiser on entry and limited numbers in shops more shops would have been able to continue to function.

I couldn’t get hold of hand sanitiser or masks for about 6 weeks

ivfbeenbusy · 10/09/2020 10:02

We didn't fail the most vulnerable we failed the majority of the working age population who were incredibly low risk anyway but are now condemned to years of unemployment and tax rises

Lockdownseperation · 10/09/2020 10:06

Sacked Dominic Cummings. Ask advice from medical, education and behavioural experts and not ‘think tanks’ who predict what Joe Public wants.

MadameBlobby · 10/09/2020 10:11

@ivfbeenbusy

We didn't fail the most vulnerable we failed the majority of the working age population who were incredibly low risk anyway but are now condemned to years of unemployment and tax rises
Didn’t exactly play a blinder in care homes protecting the vulnerable did we?
OverTheRainbow88 · 10/09/2020 10:14

Stopped Cheltenham races, football matches in huge stadiums with international teams etc. Face masks earlier, better testing, trace and trace that works, stopped international travel faster, kept certain hospitals open throughout for non covid patients who need treatment, such as cancer etc, fired follow politicians who clearly broke the rules.

MadameBlobby · 10/09/2020 10:16

Old people’s homes would be on 100% lock down with staff in lockdown also while on shift for a week at a time, assisted by the army if necessary and covid testing before entering work

You can’t lock up people at work for a week at a time! People would just have quit. They have families to look after! Care homes are obviously important but they are just a job, not a well paying one at that. You can’t expect that kind of commitment from people.

ChaChaCha2012 · 10/09/2020 10:21

I'd have been honest, and acted with integrity. No one expects perfection, but we respond (and comply) far more positively to a leader who tells the truth, is clear, and actually appears to care.

That's the biggest failure, as rather than promoting cohesion and comradeship, it led to division and blame. They're still doing it now. They've now learned a thing.

ChaChaCha2012 · 10/09/2020 10:22
  • not, not now!
MadameBlobby · 10/09/2020 10:22

@ChaChaCha2012

I'd have been honest, and acted with integrity. No one expects perfection, but we respond (and comply) far more positively to a leader who tells the truth, is clear, and actually appears to care.

That's the biggest failure, as rather than promoting cohesion and comradeship, it led to division and blame. They're still doing it now. They've now learned a thing.

Good point. I’m no fan of NS but her leadership has been a lot better than Boris.
draughtycatflap · 10/09/2020 10:24

Made sure everyone got it. Wiped out the human race. Left the planet in peace for the animals. Job done.

Cornettoninja · 10/09/2020 10:30

In all honesty I don’t think they’ve done a terrible job in principle (I’m so far from a Tory supporter it’s untrue) and credit where it’s due. Brexit on the other hand...

However, I would have started everything two weeks earlier (that’s when I took my dd out of school) and introduced the 14 day sick period for coughs and fevers when reports started coming out of Italy. I can’t remember whether it was bird or swine flu that had the statutory sick days raised to 14 days but it’s certainly not unprecedented and would have raised the profile publicly that this was not something to be messed around with.

Ideally testing should have been early and widespread but whether that would have actually been possible realistically I don’t know.

Bloomburger · 10/09/2020 10:33

I have no idea because I'm not qualified to answer the question, same as the millions of people everyday who put their idea forward of what they would gave done to address the crisis.

Cornettoninja · 10/09/2020 10:35

kept certain hospitals open throughout for non covid patients who need treatment, such as cancer etc

Can I just point out that this did happen in some areas and it was very much a lottery on how well organised and staffed your local trust is. Mine teamed up with local private hospitals to create ‘clean’ hospitals for urgent and emergency cases, Granted it wasn’t a cohesive national response but I think the failure was below government level in some areas on this one and more of an indication of poor management teams.

OverTheRainbow88 · 10/09/2020 10:50

@Cornettoninja

I’m glad it wasn’t nationwide disaster then as where we are pretty much everything has been cancelled, including my friends op to have a brain tumour removed.

Hardbackwriter · 10/09/2020 10:57

I think in general people don't realise that some things are down to trusts not central decisions. I keep seeing things on social media demanding that Matt Hancock or Boris Johnson start letting partners into antenatal scans; I think those two have an extraordinary amount to answer for but given that my local trust has been letting partners into scans since at least July I think that particular one is misdirected. There might be very good reasons why it's appropriate in some hospitals but not others but where it isn't happening it isn't because of a central ban.

cologne4711 · 11/09/2020 10:45

Just thought of some other things - had a sensible approach to dentistry.

And yes, extended the Brexit transition period.

And sacked DC - like that was ever going to happen, though. He's untouchable.

Graphista · 11/09/2020 15:44

@sheepandcow thank you

@dragongirl110 why not the basic income?

As I said a lot easier and therefore very likely cheaper to implement than all the bits and pieces of randomness they brought in.

I have friends who work in dwp who’ve been dealing with those furloughed, made redundant and otherwise facing lower income and the hours they’ve had to put in are insane! Plus they’re frazzled with new rules coming in pretty much daily at one point which led to many errors as they simply couldn’t keep up!

An UBI, even a temporary one, say 6 months then review? Could’ve been implemented quickly and simply.

The knock on effect on things like tenants being able to pay their rent would have been better for the country too.

That they would have policed what we had more vigorously or that they would have restricted people's movement more

Both!

Police and councils weren’t given strong enough powers to enforce

Peoples movements were an utter piss take! Right from who was defined as a key worker to what constituted a reasonable amount of exercise and how far people could travel and how to take exercise.

I’ve friends and family across the world and the countries/places where they better contained the virus had more stringent rules on such things eg people had to remain within a certain radius of home for shopping, exercise etc

I would have postponed Brexit and fully participated in any EU shared efforts re PPE, ventilators, vaccines. yes!

Now we’re facing a no deal Brexit at the same time as the height of winter illness NORMALLY plus a likely 2nd wave of cv

I would have admitted people into hospital with lesser symptoms. I suspect this was avoided in order to keep pictures of overrun hospitals out of the press.

Yes! But this is a long term issue with how the nhs is run in my opinion - whole other thread he’ll whole other forum really! But this ridiculous reactive rather than preventive model we have is crazy! It leaves patients suffering and must cost the country billions in terms of lost working days, up to the point of people becoming unemployed and having to rely on benefits, repeated gp visits, treatment of symptoms with no diagnosis over many years... personally aside from cv I think everyone should have a full medical check up annually, end the insanity that is penalising gp surgeries for making referrals to specialists, implement a system of preventive medicine with an emphasis on diagnosis.

I would have ensured that messaging was clear and not patronising, passing on all information, not simply three word soundbites. while I understand and agree with your intent here there is reasoning behind 3 word phrases to get important messages across. It’s basically a concentrated form of 3 part rhetoric and used in advertising, political speech writing etc because its memorable, should be formulated so its easy to understand and contain the 3 elements required to form a rhetorical argument.

Where they failed is coming up with crap 3 word phrases! They need better writers!

Just off the top of my head maybe...

Prepare, protect, prevent?

I would have sacked any advisor who broke the rules and would have personally followed them to the letter.

Yes they are completely arrogant and dismissive of the “lead by example” concept!

but I think many European countries didn’t learn from what countries in Asia were doing I think there was a VERY colonial ignorance here, that they thought that these countries were hit hard by the virus purely because they were not “as competent” as Europeans would be - which is of course and has proven to be total bullshit!

Totally agree the seeming complete lack of a contingency plan for something which as you say is a known likely occurrence was shocking!

Having worked in the civil service I feel sure they had something but that this govt hubristically thought they could do better!

Time after time they rejected the advice from experienced experts.

@Hollyhead - there was a drop in cases yes but I was using hyperbole obviously! There’d have been a MUCH better result if they’d not Fannied about! Plus I’m very sceptical about the claimed stats anyway given the utter chaos around testing and tracing! And quite frankly I don’t trust this govt not to outright lie through their teeth anyway!

it would have been very hard to get people to accept a lockdown then

I’m not generally a fan of draconian govt but sometimes it’s necessary to enforce things, that’s what should have been done here!

A major problem throughout has been that the rules haven’t been clear or they’re contradictory!

Clear, simple rules and enforcement would have made a huge difference.

Eg We had pathetic poorly enforceable fines and sanctions for breaking of the rules and no clear one method of reporting those breaking the rules, even those enforcing weren’t/aren’t sure who’s responsible for what!

Locally to me there was an incident involving a clear and very stupid breach of the rules but the authorities didn’t know what they could do about it! Eventually it was figured out and the people - poorly - sanctioned but it really should have been possible for in this instance the police to step in and shut the issue down and deal with those responsible.

Yes we DID fail the vulnerable but we failed everyone else too!

Having worked in elderly nursing in the past I am wary of getting started there as SO MUCH was wrong imo, pretty much everything that happened!

But to try to summarise:

1 Locked down all elderly care homes nursing and residential in terms of

A no visitors

B stopping the movement of staff between different homes (in the past it was more rare that staff worked in more than perhaps 2 homes even agency staff, but with the economy in the shit that has of course changed and it’s now I hear not uncommon for staff to work across as many as 8-10 homes! Personally I think this should be banned full stop for infection control reason but this govt doesn’t give a damn about these residents because while pensioners are the group most likely to vote, home residents generally tend not to or are no longer able to due to mental incapacity

C I’d even have looked at limiting hcp visitors where possible.

2 as many pps have said utilised the nightingale centres as an intermediate care zone for those residents due to be discharged from hospital, asymptomatic or minor symptoms but positive for covid.

3 introduced a scheme of refresher emergency training for former care workers who were willing at this time to return to the work temporarily.

4 introduced a sensible emergency recruitment scheme for non care staff needed in the homes and/or nightingale centres - cleaners, caterers etc

As an addendum to my first post

Supermarkets!

They should have shut down the panic buying crap straight away and as they didn’t the govt should have stepped in and basically told them to get a fucking grip!

Prior to lockdown I was a regular online Sainsburys shopper.

I am disabled and housebound...but not in the shielding group

Literally overnight I could not get a delivery slot with them, they refused to read emails and their phones weren’t being answered for HOURS and that was IF you could get through at all.

I turned to others but struggled to get delivery slots with them too although they were more helpful in terms of getting through by phone etc

As we all know certain crucial items became extremely difficult to get. WHY both supermarkets and manufacturers (which I’ve NEVER seen the manufacturers response even MENTIONED anywhere) didn’t immediately and sensibly respond to the increase in demand and implement a system of rationing.

The supermarkets have PROFITED from this in ways that are morally dubious too!

Delivery fees shot up pretty much immediately, their nod to rationing in stopping multibuy offers didn’t prevent panic buying just made it work in their favour!

but we respond (and comply) far more positively to a leader who tells the truth, is clear, and actually appears to care absolutely

@Bloomburger - and what are Johnson’s and the rest of his govts qualifications? He’s a glorified copy boy!

RedRumTheHorse · 11/09/2020 15:55

Stopping people going to the beaches is more about getting people to accept the pandemic is serious more than anything.

It would have also decreased the number of deaths and injuries from when people jumped off clifts.

OntheWaves40 · 11/09/2020 15:59

Kept schools open without any changes, introduced masks earlier, closed border, introduced support bubble earlier but mostly fired Dominic Cummings for ruining everyone’s trust in the government and causing this second wave by people not being careful because he didn’t.

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