Rationing testing

[herecomesthsun]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/health-chiefs-admit-rationing-of-coronavirus-tests-80gtl7hwg?fbclid=IwAR12a4CeiUwc3eGQoY_8miqhzrJZ_O97cYPruRPuAJ6ttsqSjaI9_A_uods

Apparently, they want to
a) discourage schools from testing pupils. (As someone ECV whose kids warily went to school today, this is terrible news)
b) they want to focus testing on hot spots. Great to have testing in hot spots, but without good testing elsewhere, we won't know where new hot spots are developing.

Well some of the mums have already had their kids tested in my childs class. It's for things like snotty noses and/or a few sneezes. So far all tests come back negative. I personally think we shouldn't test every child with a cold. It's a waste of resources.

I agree with it

It’s ridiculous the things people are testing for

No wonder we are running out

So people

• very much want schools open in a pandemic
• test and trace is a key part of this, but
• you don't want people to be able to use the tests and
• there is no respite for the clinically extremely vulnerable as everyone is forced back together

so

do you guys actually WANT a very high death toll?

I mean, I'm curious.

Or do you not understand why test and trace is important?

There is going to be some overlap inevitably with symptoms of the common cold.

What people want but won’t say is for country to open up back to complete normality and for support to be focused purely on vulnerable

Almost everyone I know wants this.

I agree with Peter English and Paul Hunter:

Peter English, of the British Medical Association, said that it was “ludicrous” to ask people ill with coronavirus to drive for three hours and warned: “We understand there is limited testing capacity but the logic of moving so much of it away from areas with low infection rates is flawed as it means the programme is less likely to identify new spikes early, allowing swift action to be taken.”

With ministers talking of a “moonshot” attempt to use mass testing to return to normal life, Dr English said: “The present system is not working. Without getting the basics right, and ensuring people can easily and safely access tests, this goal looks a long way off.”

Paul Hunter, professor of medicine at the University of East Anglia, said: “Rationing in low-risk areas is absolutely not what you want to do because if you want to stop low-risk areas becoming high risk ones you’ve got to spot cases before they become unmanageable.”

What a shitshow!

How much does each test cost... I am guessing £10 each at bare minimum.

100k tests/day would mean £1million spent per day. £365 million/year. £6/person or about £12/yr per working adult -- are my maths right?

But if tests cost, say, £30 each to administer, that would mean £1 billion over a year. £36/working person.

I never knew this:

Although official figures show that testing capacity stands at almost 370,000, it has emerged that about 100,000 of this is for antibody tests, more than 90 per cent of which are not being used.

Our school won’t accept children with any of the symptoms (sore throat OR cough, OR temp) without a negative test or 14 day isolation.

That’s why so many kids are needing tests.

I have DS home with a sore throat (no temp, no cough) when normally I would 100% send him in but school won’t allow it.

Regardless of the cost, I doubt that there is the lab capacity in the UK to process 100k tests a day.

So, if you don't live in a hotspot but develop symptoms you're just expected to suck up isolating for ten days and your household isolating for fourteen days because government is rationing tests? That's ridiculous and people just won't do it will they?

Well yes. If there is evidence that people in a particular area are abusing the testing system it makes sense to put that area to the bottom of the list (and abusing the testing system is exactly what those testing for a sore throat or sniffles are doing). I would also like to see those people who have requested several tests that have all come back negative (and who are not part of a routine testing programme) be placed on a special list where they have to phone for a test and give reasons rather than apply online like everyone else as such people will on the most part also be individuals who are abusing the system.

Gal then you should complain to you LA as that is not gov advice re sore throat

And too many kids are getting tested unnecessarily - it’s a persistent or continuous cough, not just any old cough

So that depends on what you mean by support and who you mean by the vulnerable. Intelligent support would be very welcome, especially if there is a level of choice. A sort of curfew for the over 50 s less so,

The test and trace however is vital for the well being of the nation as there is potential for 80k or 120k deaths according to the statisticians. Even if you aren't that bothered about avoiding deaths, they sort of get in the way of shops and restaurants making a profit. And at that sort of level, normally healthy, young people succumb to covid and the chronically underfunded hospitals get overwhelmed. And the schools may even need to close.

So we need test and trace and it needs to be rolled out widely, or else we will be back on exponential avenue before you know it.

@Vinoonasunnyday

What people want but won’t say is for country to open up back to complete normality and for support to be focused purely on vulnerable

Almost everyone I know wants this.

I don't know anyone who wants this. I feel like there's two countries again!

@Bwlch
There's plenty of capacity for 100,000 tests a day, as proven by the fact we are currently processing 170,000-190,000 tests per day on the average day. There is not capacity for the literally millions of tests per day that some would like to see and short of literally building new laboratories from the ground up and training thousands of people in processing the tests it won't be possible.

Is start by educating people around tests

So many people testing who shouldn’t

Testing for a cold
Testing without symptoms
Testing cos friend of friend has covid
Testing for a cough that’s not continuous etc

Bet we could save half tests right there

People seem to have lost their common sense

@herecomesthsun

So people

• very much want schools open in a pandemic
• test and trace is a key part of this, but
• you don't want people to be able to use the tests and
• there is no respite for the clinically extremely vulnerable as everyone is forced back together

so

do you guys actually WANT a very high death toll?

I mean, I'm curious.

Or do you not understand why test and trace is important?

There is going to be some overlap inevitably with symptoms of the common cold.

People are happy to other the ECV because it's not affecting them or their families. The ECV, and I'm in that category, just don't matter.

Or do you not understand why test and trace is important?

Sadly I think most people still don't understand this, all these months on from the start. Test and trace is key, not just to schools being open, but to having any sort of control over the virus for the next however long until a vaccine is widely available.

The way most people talk, you'd think the only weapons we have are lockdown measures and masks.

Or that we should go back to plan A, tell all 'the vulnerable' to get back in the fucking cupboard and then just let it rip through.

I have read on MN threads about (non keyworker)households having multiple tests at multiple times.

Trouble is, who's to say if these are genuinely needed or if some are testing for every sniffle?

@herecomesthsun

Yes, since posting, I have been looking at this...

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

@lljkk

How much does each test cost... I am guessing £10 each at bare minimum.

100k tests/day would mean £1million spent per day. £365 million/year. £6/person or about £12/yr per working adult -- are my maths right?

But if tests cost, say, £30 each to administer, that would mean £1 billion over a year. £36/working person.

The question to ask really is how much does each positive test save long term.

Testing is not a cost so much as an investment.

Any person not entering ICU is a huge saving.

I do know that there are real and concrete plans underway to scale testing to 1M tests per day by the end of November, so I suspect any rationing now would be short lived.

@GalOopNorth

Our school won’t accept children with any of the symptoms (sore throat OR cough, OR temp) without a negative test or 14 day isolation.

That’s why so many kids are needing tests.

I have DS home with a sore throat (no temp, no cough) when normally I would 100% send him in but school won’t allow it.

That in contrary to government advice. A sore throat is not one of the symptoms that triggers testing.

@TheLastStarfighter

I do know that there are real and concrete plans underway to scale testing to 1M tests per day by the end of November, so I suspect any rationing now would be short lived.

No, the pm was talking about 500k/day but even that was widely thought to be 'highly aspirational'.

When you say 'I do know' - how do you know?

Since start of August my household has had 4 tests...

Test 1, hospital on admission with appendicitis but slightly raised temperature so had to be treated as suspect until negative test. Unavoidable unless hospital wanted to gamble!

Test 2, 3 days after school starts toddler has 40 degrees temp, clearly we go and test... required 2 visits to A&E as not Calpol responsive plus caused weird balance issues (probably ear infection!)

Tests 3 and 4. School aged child has cough and temperature, DH has cough. Both get tested. Fortunately toddler managed to avoid developing a temperature.

3 and 4 were unnecessary in hindsight, but DH works with the public in a role where social distancing is not really possible. We also have positive cases in the neighbouring school in the same aged class, so again better to be careful given we had a temperature in a child that doesn't often get them.

Haven't tested snotty toddler who clearly has a cold that has barely affected his sister because he's not coughing, just dripping snot and drooling, and doesn't have a temperature (and usually spikes one with very limited provocation), plus he's not in childcare...