China???

[BBCONEANDTWO]

What is China doing that has made them manage the virus so well?

e.g.

Total cases: 85,112
Total deaths: 4,634
Recovered: 80,284

Is it because the infection started in China first and the virus wasn't as strong?

Is it because of contact tracing?

Is it because their hospitals are more advanced?

Is it due to a younger population?

I'm so utterly confused about how China have done so well.

I also wonder about this, OP. However, I also wonder if China have been telling the truth about their statistics.

It is combination of positive and negative:

Positive - amazing capacity to respond, excellent public health infrastructure, population who take health risk seriously

Negative - social control, totalitarian state

Nothing to do with the virus itself.

UK response has been utterly useless as we have cut health care right back.

Two factors already mentioned make the biggest difference:

1. Figures reported, particularly in the early stages do not match reports on the ground. E.g. the evidence of significant hospital admissions in Wuhan last August.
2. Totalitarian state with a desire to take drastic measures to stop the virus; they can and have closed down cities for very few cases to suppress spread.

A slightly lower average age and slightly lower life expectancy also make a disproportionate difference with this particular illness.

Extremely authoritarian measures were used to suppress the virus back in Jan / Feb / March. Volunteers going round door to door and taking people’s temperatures in their homes. Anyone with a fever sent to a quarantine centre. In other instances people were literally barricaded into their homes if suspected to have the virus, and half the population in complete lack down. Phone surveillance to track people’s movements. A virtual ban on international travellers which is still in place. Limiting movement within their borders.

Impossible to replicate here due to infringements on civil rights and human liberties.

@MRex

Two factors already mentioned make the biggest difference: 1) Figures reported, particularly in the early stages do not match reports on the ground. E.g. the evidence of significant hospital admissions in Wuhan last August. 2) Totalitarian state with a desire to take drastic measures to stop the virus; they can and have closed down cities for very few cases to suppress spread.

A slightly lower average age and slightly lower life expectancy also make a disproportionate difference with this particular illness.

It’s also been well documented that the virus mutated to become more infectious, and this was the dominant strain that circled Europe and New York

www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/06/29/coronavirus-mutation-science/?arc404=true

Chinese government rule with an iron fist, they say you stay in your house one person allowed out every three days for food shopping and everyone, almost without exception, everyone does it.

Manipulation of numbers, almost certainly, but population control means their response more effective. Plus they have had pandemics recently (SARS etc) so their response is already drafted, which also helps.

And criticisin/questioning the government gets you in whole heaps of trouble, which on the whole is barbaric but if you need a lot of people to act accordingly I guess it's an advantage.

I mean you can imagine what would happen if a group of young adults threw a rave during lockdown in China. The words detention centre spring to mind!

Quarantine centres will have really impacted I expect.

If you look at the lockdown in Wuhan in late January/February you will notice it was quite different to our lockdown! Might be worth looking at news reports from that time (when the news was still about "the virus in China" before it was about "the virus in Italy" etc).

There were reports of doors to high rises being welded shut if someone in the building tested positive. People had no choice about quarantining, or about getting tested.
Very efficient mass surveillance and tracking of the population (with no opt out).
They have the means to lock a whole city up and provide them with rations (so not even leaving the flat to go to the supermarket.)
There are videos of people being dragged off buses and grabbed with nets... presumably because they had been in contact with someone who tested positive (or maybe even in contact with someone who had been in contact with someone who tested positive).
Efficient and utterly merciless.

China is also a massive country and the virus was concentrated in one city/district. So they could direct the might of the whole country to deal with the situation in one place.
Also means that the infection and mortality figures for the country overall are less relevant than the figures for a specific district... just as the figures for "Europe" are not indicative of individual countries within Europe.

They are a ruthless massive police state.

We are not able to crack down as harshly as them, and even if we were I would hope that we wouldn't!

They welded people into their homes at the height of the pandemic. And they have probably lied about their stats, at least somewhat.

@RhubarbTea

They welded people into their homes at the height of the pandemic. And they have probably lied about their stats, at least somewhat.

Apparently the welding was not true, they were closing an alternative exit so entry/exit could be monitored via the main door?

I still can't get my head round the fact they knocked on every door in Addis Ababa in about three weeks right at the start.

And we can't get a test within 100 miles six months on!

Your first question should be how reliable are those numbers, no point in coming up with explanations unless you know you're working with data that's as good as it can be.

Everything we know about China would suggest they aren't accurate.

I remember a horrific story about a quickly built quarantine centre collapsing. There was no choice about going to these centres of course, and families were not necessarily sent to the same one...

I am not convinced about the virus being less severe then... I remember seeing some awful footage when the Wuhan hospitals were struggling to cope at the beginning.
Doctors slumped on the floor in exhaustion, not enough beds, and unattended patients in a very bad way. But this of course was not confirmed, because China does not have a free press! At this time loads of people (including in the West) were trying to downplay the seriousness of the virus, because it seemed so unbelievable that such a huge thing could be happening and heading our way...

Mostly lies probably.

Manipulation of numbers, almost certainly, but population control means their response more effective. Plus they have had pandemics recently (SARS etc) so their response is already drafted, which also helps.

Having epidemics in living memory probably helps population control too. It’s difficult for us in the UK to imagine what that is like as these things are normally something that happens elsewhere.

@PleasantVille

Your first question should be how reliable are those numbers, no point in coming up with explanations unless you know you're working with data that's as good as it can be.

Everything we know about China would suggest they aren't accurate.

Agree.

Alongside that what people have said.

Authoritarian state.

Drs were 'disappearing' after speaking out.

People do as they are ordered as consequences are severe.

And yes to looking closer because there was reports of respiratory illness being higher globally from August. Specifically China in August and areas of Europe (including U.K.) Nov/Dec time.

Obviously currently this is hypothesis because no clarification has been given and I worry that some countries being in co operative will mean it's hard to ever really know the truth.

"What are they doing?"

LYING

Being like China is not something we should aspire to, even if there is a pandemic.

1. They have an authoritative government where when they are told to do something e.g. Wear masks, people will wear masks. No one will complain and walk into tesco booming "I ain't wearing one I Ave rights". No one gets to where a marigold and get out of it, no matter what's wrong with them (and no I'm not saying this is ok). Culturally they have to buck up and do it or not leave their house. Also they will literally be forced to do what they are told.

1. The government also lies...

I also don’t trust much that comes out of China but the figures they’ve released would tally with the outbreak being confined to one city (Wuhan). London has very similar figures although New York has vastly worse figures than both cities. I do struggle to believe that they managed to confine covid to one city but then they did take pretty dramatic measures....

@Redolent

Extremely authoritarian measures were used to suppress the virus back in Jan / Feb / March. Volunteers going round door to door and taking people’s temperatures in their homes. Anyone with a fever sent to a quarantine centre. In other instances people were literally barricaded into their homes if suspected to have the virus, and half the population in complete lack down. Phone surveillance to track people’s movements. A virtual ban on international travellers which is still in place. Limiting movement within their borders.

Impossible to replicate here due to infringements on civil rights and human liberties.

Thank god we can't replicate that in the UK!

Frankly it is not just China. There are certainly commonalities in all countries which have been more successful in containing the virus including Australia, New Zealand, Singapore etc. Three things worth pointing out are that 1) taking very drastic measures very quickly - the virus is very hard to control (as we have all experienced here) that once it spreads across nation; 2) efficient mass testing, quarantine and contact tracing and 3) a population generally compliant with the rules.

I would recommend a read of this article which is thought provoking: www.flyingsesame.com/why-is-the-west-losing-the-coronavirus-battle/

'I also wonder if China have been telling the truth about their statistics.'

Yes I don't know why anyone believes a word they say. That said Japan has had few deaths despite not doing much at all. You can't help wondering if some immunity from previous SARS outbreaks has contributed www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53188847

China is an authoritarian state that implemented very tough measures that would go against our laws - it’s certainly the most successful way of limiting the spread of a virus. Also they acted very fast

I don’t believe Chinese government’s statements on numbers