No social distancing in 6th form classrooms/common room

[kitnkaboodle]

I know that there was an earlier thread on this that ran to 1000 messages and shut down, but ...

I'm sitting here with egg on my face, as through the summer I didn't believe my DS (16) telling me that in his (new) Y12, they wouldn't have to distance from the other pupils in sixth form or be spaced out within the classrooms. He said that things would be 'the same as normal', and I honestly thought he was talking rubbish.

He's just home from his first day and, sure enough, the WHOLE sixth form is classed as one bubble and there are no social distancing measures at all between the kids there apart from desks all facing the front. I'm not sure about teachers - will ask later, but I presume they aren't in the bubbles and have to keep apart.

I glanced at the earlier thread title (that was something along the lines of 'the govt are letting the public believe there will be SD in schools') and thought it was all a bit paranoid (without reading it). However, I now genuinely believe that photos of all the 'back to school' stories have been carefully curated to show kids standing/sitting at least a metre apart. I'm one of those who thinks that we just need to 'get on with it' now, regarding schools, but I do feel royally hoodwinked by that. It was very subtle ... (and now I have to apologise to DS for not believing him!!)

@HalfBrick

What's the point of social distancing in schools (which is impossible) when teenagers have been hanging out in groups with no social distancing ALL summer and will carry on the same after school and at weekends during school time? I don't have teens by the way, just eyes.

But even so, the teens that have done that are likely to have stuck with the same group. Secondary schools are upwards of 1000 students - I doubt they've all been meeting on a regular basis over the summer. Even more, I doubt vulnerable or unshielded students, or those with family members in that group, have been meeting up and yet they're now exposed to the risk at school.

@cyclingmad

Well you have two choices, they go to school or you home school them. Those are the two choices available, you might not like either of them but one is less worse than the other and each carries its own risks.

They are the two options which we have been forced into.

There were other options - at school with increased distancing was possible. Blended learning was possible. However no, that would cost money / be unpopular with a specific group of vocal parents, so those options were taken off the table.

The recent issuing of 'Tiers' means that, for secondary at least, a forced move to blended learning of 2 weeks in / two weeks at home may very rapidly be on the table in some areas - but the government has forced us down this binary route.

In primary, a more chaotic version of blended learning will become likely if numbers rise and teachers start becoming ill.

Yes it seems one of my kid's secondary is preemptively planning for possible blended learning. They have returned with a new two week timetable and only 3 extra long lessons per day. This helps to limit the amount of different classes the teachers move around to in a week but also will help with a part time rota if needed.

@noblegiraffe

Hah staff I think in that case we will see many parents who were moaning about how state schools weren't replicating private provision becoming a little bit quieter.

Well it will be fun when the DfE go back to their offices now that BoJo has ordered them back.

Oh no wait there was a Guardian article saying the Civil Service unions were threatening to strike ...

I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg

I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible.

Bugger the teachers then.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg

I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible.

New supply teacher everyday (until they run out) - not the sort of ‘normal’ I want for my kids.

"I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible".

Secondary bubbles can incorporate some SD e.g spreading tables apart etc but you also need to bear in mind that if a pupil tests positive, anyone who sits within 1m in any of their lessons for the previous 2 days will need to isolate as will any pupil they have been in face to face contact with at a distance of 1m. I'm sure this will be inconvenient for parents and we are encouraging bubbles to SD where they can.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg

I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible.

This makes no sense to me with secondary age. They can cope with a bit of SD, and schools are so much less likely to shut.

For many older children, the lack of SD is driving stress around returning.

@ChanceChanceChance

Social distancing would be terrible for teenagers’ mental health- it would be horrific telling them they had to stay two metres apart from their friends after not seeing them for two months.

The more practical issue though is that there is just no way for schools to open if social distancing was enforced. Schools have exactly the same buildings and exactly the same classrooms as they’ve always had- where are all the excess students going to go if you make them stay apart?

Social distancing would be terrible for teenagers’ mental health

Gotta love a gross generalisation.

Social distancing would be terrible for teenagers' mental health?

Getting covid wouldn't be much fun for them either.

Giving it to their grandparents would be a bit of a downer, don't you think.

And it would be a bit sad if their teachers (especially the clinically vulnerable ones) came down with it. After all, it's really difficult to get teachers in some subjects. Shame to lose any.

@TheYellowOfTheEgg

I'm glad that there is no distancing within the bubbles. I'm also glad that masks are not encouraged in classrooms. Kids need things to be as normal as possible.

Few more weeks and masks will be required in lessons in secondary.

We have tried to assign rooms to bubbles etc. With doors and windows open it is like a giant open corridor.

But don’t worry as homework, tests and detention will be as normal

Doors anyone's dc take a public bus to school? Dd does. It takes 40-60 mins.

Is this too much risk on top of being in a big sixth form? Bubble 250 kids, most of whom are not distancing.

*Does

Yes, my Ds will be taking the bus to college. It takes an hour.

DS takes a school bus with no SD. They are meant to sit within their bubbles, includes both Primary and Secondary. They all have to wear masks.

Is this too much risk on top of being in a big sixth form? Bubble 250 kids, most of whom are not distancing.

He is risking an increased chance of having to isolate if he sits next to someone that knows him who tests positive. I think even with a mask you can be considered a close contact if sat within a metre for that long and possibly within 2m especially if talking face to face.

I don't expect the chance of infection is higher than the what 5 hours of lessons 1 hour social time? with non SD bubbles. It depends how packed the bus is.

@tenlittlecygnets

Doors anyone's dc take a public bus to school? Dd does. It takes 40-60 mins.

Is this too much risk on top of being in a big sixth form? Bubble 250 kids, most of whom are not distancing.

DD takes a school bus. No SD, but masks and a seating plan predicated on first on / last off to avoid people walking past each other.

So she has large bubble, and bus. I have a primary bubble, where SD is impossible and i am sharing air with the same kids for the entire school day. DH has an enormous bubble due to working in a huge post-16 setting in a fully cross-site role.

It's obviously too much risk, but apart from doing the usual change-and-shower on getting home, wearing masks whenever we can, restricting further social or family contacts to near zero, and washing our hands until they bleed, what can we do?

@walksen

You’re being unnecessarily hysterical- I certainly hope you don’t pass your anxiety on to your DS.

We have a situation at the moment in the U.K. where there are an average of 1000 cases in the whole country per day out of a population of 65 milllion.

The chance of an infected person sitting next to your DS on a bus is absolutely tiny. Even if by some miracle that did happen, your DS will likely suffer no symptoms in any event so there is nothing to worry about unless you have someone extremely vulnerable at home.

Social distancing would be terrible for teenagers’ mental health- it would be horrific telling them they had to stay two metres apart from their friends after not seeing them for two months.

I'm just not on board with this at all. I think many teens are a lot more robust than people give them credit for. Children I agree can not distance.

Tbh, I think a lot of parents are struggling and are projecting.

It's a tough tough time. But imo that is due to the uncertainty, not sitting a bit further apart.

I make exception for teens in relationships, I wouldn't expect couples to distance!!

@bostoncalling

Haha that is not hysterical

I didn't say anything about getting Ill or catching coronavirus and there is clearly a "risk" of sitting next to someone and having to self isolate. It's not massive compared to the risk of being at school or college itself and I said nothing about not using the bus etc but it is not zero but I'd wager there are more kids missing school self isolating due to coronavirus than are testing positive for it at the moment. I also implied the way round this is to SD on the bus from anyone who can give his name to contact tracers.

Which part of the post is hysterical exactly? People throw this term around as an insult to shut down debate. Either that or you don't know what it means or are being hysterical yourself

The cases are small at the moment but they are well over a thousand and remember the daily tests are only people with symptoms and who go for tests so the actual cases are likely double the headline figure according to the ons at least. We don't know where the pp is either so cases could be higher or lower than the national average. In Scotland attendance is 10% below average and it is not because 10% of pupils have covid but mostly self isolating s
Pupils due to symptoms( whether because of a cold etc is ireelevant) or being told to do so

In a school of a 1000 people there is less than a 50% chance that anyone is infected and even less that there is an infected pupil showing symptoms. Mostly likely there won't be a case for a month but when there is it will be disruptive for a few families as they could have sat next to 10 different people in lessons alone. That assumes contact trace works properly. How many of those 10 catch it is unknown at the moment but the risk of harm to a pupil is cc vanishingly small unless they are vulnerable or have vulnerable family members.

Threads like this should serve as a reminder of just how powerful the media can be in persuading a nation to believe in something so fully that they will not hear any alternative arguments.

At our open afternoon on Friday (primary) many, many parents were surprised upon seeing the classrooms and how crammed in their children were. One asked me if we could spread the desks out more - I had to indicate the size of my classroom and very bluntly say ‘to where?’.

[quote BostonCalling]@walksen

You’re being unnecessarily hysterical- I certainly hope you don’t pass your anxiety on to your DS.

We have a situation at the moment in the U.K. where there are an average of 1000 cases in the whole country per day out of a population of 65 milllion.

The chance of an infected person sitting next to your DS on a bus is absolutely tiny. Even if by some miracle that did happen, your DS will likely suffer no symptoms in any event so there is nothing to worry about unless you have someone extremely vulnerable at home.[/quote]
And of course the extremely vulnerable don't matter, so the arrangements at school don't really take this into account, and hey, kids, bad luck if your parent dies, we DGAF, so what.

There are currently nearly 2000 people a day testing positive and the real total in recent weeks has been thought to be 2 or 3 times higher than this.

The chance of sitting near an infected person depends where you are in the country. If 1 in 2,000 people (say) is infected and there are 1,400 kids and staff in a school, then it is more probable than not (on average) that one of those might be infected. If asymptomatic, they might well be wandering around the school, or sitting on the bus. If the lack of social distancing causes further spread, then there could be literally dozens of cases before someone tests positive.

This is the science, please don't gaslight people for reasonable concerns.

@BostonCalling

We have a situation at the moment in the U.K. where there are an average of 1000 cases in the whole country per day out of a population of 65 milllion.

The issue isn’t the current number of cases (1,000 or so is the daily confirmed cases - infections will be higher than that), or personally I don’t have any immediate concern (my daughter gets the school bus and I’m not especially worried at the moment), but it’s more that we’re creating the conditions nationally for Covid to become a major problem again.

Cases were really low in January (perhaps similar to where we are now).... we didn’t really see any impact in February as things were brewing then, bang, in March it was out of control. Things shouldn’t get as bad this time due to more testing and the fact that the vulnerable are in general being more careful, but the more people act like the risk has gone away, the more likely it is for that risk to be realised.