The government is trying to make you think schools will be socially distanced

[noblegiraffe]

The government are currently running a (well publicised) propaganda campaign to say that schools are safe. They are using social media influencers, journalists and friendly scientists (firmly ignoring any unfriendly ones like the Royal Society). Branwen Jefferys of the BBC tweeted “So how high is government anxiety about school return? A PR company acting on behalf of the Cabinet office is now emailing media offering experts to support the “messaging”. Strange way to approach news journalists ..”

And just about every news outlet running stories about schools seems to be rotating stock footage of half empty classrooms with teachers miles away from the kids. There have even been photos of kids getting temperature checks (not allowed). I was watching Sky news where a commentator was saying how awful it was that kids would be sent back to socially distanced schools. The PM gave a rambling speech to carefully spaced kids in a library. And in a visit to a classroom it’s clear that the kids were all shoved down one end in order to give some lovely spaced kids at the other end for the PM to pose in front of.
metro.co.uk/2020/08/27/boris-johnson-staged-school-visit-social-distancing-13188600/

Matt Hancock was on the news saying it was really important for teachers to stay 2m from the kids to avoid spreading the virus between all the bubbles they’ll be working in, despite knowing that this will be utterly and hopelessly impossible.

Why are the government lying? Why are they sending the ‘right’ experts to the press? Why are kids being spread out for staged photo shoots instead of honest pictures?

And why are the press largely going along with it?

Schools are going back, in a lot of cases to an estate that is unfit for purpose. Old buildings, no ventilation, large class sizes. Pupils will be crammed in facing a teacher who won’t be able to stand 2m from them. If it’s so safe, why aren’t they showing and acknowledging the reality?

YABU: what they are doing is fine and there are perfectly reasonable explanations for all the suggestions of socially distanced classrooms and schools in the media

YANBU: the lying liars are lying to us again

Clav

10k per school then? About half a cleaner’s salary. Or approx 250 hand sanitizer station refills.

(It’s good of course that AQA are doing this, however it’s hardly a cure-all. Doesn’t 42 million sound like a nice big number though?)

@Enoughnowstop how do you think DH examines his patients? He is certainly not 1m away 🤣 and no-for the first 3months he did not have full PPE even in theatre as they had run out and supply chains were overloaded!

My OP: “the government is running a propaganda campaign and suggesting that schools will be socially distanced, achieved by misleading photos in the press, staged photo shoots, and assertions that teachers will be 2m from the kids so they won’t spread Covid between bubbles”

Response “you need to quit your job as you are too anxious”.

Talk about avoiding the subject.

Haven't RTFT, but I think let the Government crack on with their propaganda. In fact, the more they spout it, the better it is for teachers and the unions, who've been raising concerns about the impossibility of social distancing since day one. If* there are any outbreaks and schools are forced to shut for quarantine or local lockdowns are triggered, then hopefully everyone will realise the blame doesn't lie with them. It might just end the vilification and demonisation of teachers and educators that right-wing newspapers like the Telegraph have been gleefully stirring up throughout lockdown.

• I say if, but it's more likely when.

does your DH have to buy hand sanitiser etc himself

Most people with any sense are carrying hand sanitiser on them and keeping some in the car. My DC has taken their own bottle into school with them. Obviously, some children can't/won't but I doubt that will break a school's budget!

I’m a TA who worked in school throughout June & July. I stopped reading the newspapers in late May and stopped listening to any government briefings or broadcasts. I was in daily contact with the children in our class, throughout the time that school was closed and they became more and more unhappy and upset as time went on. It didn’t matter how lovely their parents were or how committed to home learning they were, the children missed their friends, their teachers, their routines and their freedom. The return to school was fantastic. I’m very, very happy to be going back to school next week. We’ll be washing hands and cleaning, reminding the children to practice good hygiene and not to be hugging/grabbing each other but no, we won’t be able to ensure that they’re socially distant at all times. Am I worried? Not a bit. Have I been brainwashed or lied to? No, as I’ve stayed away from media reports, etc,. There may never be a vaccine, so life needs to be lived to the full which is exactly what I’m doing.

A question for the teachers on this post, what can we as parents do to help make your job easier in the return to school?
If parents sent in PPE for you to wear? Face masks, visors, packs of disinfecting wipes? 5L bottles of hand sanitiser?

I'm sure many parents would want to help, but many parents dont really know what the situation is in the classroom for teachers. I certainly wouldnt know if it wasnt for Mumsnet.

Let’s say most know and a few are influenced. Do you want them to be influenced or keep dc home?

I would want them to do what is right for their circumstances. So if their child is extremely vulnerable, for example, I want them to be allowed to make a reasoned decision.

I didn't say that all parents know what school will be like. Some other posters did.

I believe the images are being used deliberately to deceive. I believe this to be wrong. I don't think they should be used to lie to parents.

[quote MrsElijahMikaelson1]@Enoughnowstop how do you think DH examines his patients? He is certainly not 1m away 🤣 and no-for the first 3months he did not have full PPE even in theatre as they had run out and supply chains were overloaded![/quote]
And so it’s ok to put children in to schools with similar shortages/ban on ppe and overcrowding (30+ at less than 1m for an hour or more, not a single Patient for a couple of minutes) because the NHS was woefully underprepared due to government incompetence? Really? That’s the best we can expect for our children and their teachers - ‘we put up with a shit situation 6 months ago, why should anyone else expect better?’

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy

A question for the teachers on this post, what can we as parents do to help make your job easier in the return to school? If parents sent in PPE for you to wear? Face masks, visors, packs of disinfecting wipes? 5L bottles of hand sanitiser?

I'm sure many parents would want to help, but many parents dont really know what the situation is in the classroom for teachers. I certainly wouldnt know if it wasnt for Mumsnet.

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy But we’re not allowed to wear protection, only if a school is in a lockdown area.

I would buy my own masks and visors but I’m not allowed to wear them.

@AutumnLeavesSeptember

I think the risk to my children is very small - see new study out today.

Lucky children teach themselves them is it?!

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy

A question for the teachers on this post, what can we as parents do to help make your job easier in the return to school? If parents sent in PPE for you to wear? Face masks, visors, packs of disinfecting wipes? 5L bottles of hand sanitiser?

I'm sure many parents would want to help, but many parents dont really know what the situation is in the classroom for teachers. I certainly wouldnt know if it wasnt for Mumsnet.

My OH is a teacher and is really looking forward to getting back to school next week. He's really missed the classroom. I've just asked him your question and he says making sure they know to cough into their elbows and lots of hand washing should be a given, but he wants to see lots of enthusiasm for being taught again! They do have a lot of ground to catch up and he wants his new class to be excited to be back at school.

@MissCharlotteBartlett we are not talking about small bottles of hand sanitiser, we are talking about larger commercial ones. Every classroom will need many of these. Do you expect teachers to keep them replenished from their own pocket? Schools have not been given any funding for them, they have not been given any funding for the extra cleaning that is required. Schools have no funding for the extra supply teachers they will need if teachers have to be off due to illness or self isolation.

So yes the extra cost of hand sanitisers could break a school’s budget.

"Resign then, if you don't like your working conditions."

"Deregister and homeschool if you're so fearful of the virus."

I see flippant comments like these constantly on threads to do with schools and it's so frustrating because firstly it's a complete non-argument designed to shut down any discussion or acknowledge other people's concerns.

But secondly, I wonder if the people who think it's as simple as just resigning or just deregistering have ever extended their thinking beyond this basic argument and thought about how that will actually impact their OWN child. If teachers resign then who is going to replace them? The fact is that teachers in general are hard to replace as there is both a recruitment and retainment crisis. Add into the mix those who are maths specialists, for example, and it makes the chances of them being replaced even harder still. So "just resign" is utterly pointless if you actually care about your child getting a decent education. Less teachers means even bigger classes, non-specialists potentially teaching specialist subjects and limited subjects available for those in secondary.

If all the parents with concerns about the virus just deregister their children and homeschool then how do you think that is going to impact on the school budget? Do you think schools will be able to afford more staff? Nope. Can they afford to keep support staff? Nope. Will they be able to afford day to day resources, like pencils, paper, Pritt sticks etc? Nope. Will they be able to fund swimming lessons or experience days? Nope. Can they afford decent technology or to replace broken laptops or tablets? Nope. The list goes on.

If you can't put yourself into someone's else's shoes without giving a dismissive response in return then look at it from your own child's point of view and how teachers resigning and schools losing per pupil funding will impact your own child and then tell me losing teachers and children in schools is a good idea.

If the government's real plans are so safe and they're confident that everyone is on board with them then they should be showing what the real plans look like in the press and all their little spin conferences.

Either,
A) the government's plan is safe and reasonable, in which case that should be shown (not carefully staged, half empty rooms)
Or
B) the government's plan isn't safe or reasonable, in which case they should be working with school leaders and unions to open schools more in a safe way

@Bbq1

Ds's school have emailed and they've added sinks all over the school, hand sanatising stations and even added 3 new toilet blocks. I'm quite impressed with that.

I'm impressed with that.

What did they say about the measures to counteract the airborne aspect of the virus?

All school budgets will be blown to smithereens before December comes I suspect but that should not prevent children from accessing their education
It shouldn't but next year, when heads have to make staff redundant because of it, there will be access to education issues. Bigger class sizes, arts and pe cut to the bare bones, fewer support staff...

I've bought my own visor! School staff are used to buying their own classroom supplies, so I wouldn't say it is cost*

But why should we have to buy our own PPE? Would you expect a nurse to buy their own?

As a result, we’re passing savings of £42 million back to schools and colleges by refunding 26 per cent of entry fees for this summer

Now do the maths. How many high schools and 6th forms are there in the UK? If you split £42 million between all those schools, how much is that per school? (I just worked out about £8750 per school, based on google high school numbers, didn’t include 6th forms or independents). Whilst you do that, remember that not all schools use AQA (so a bit more £ for those that do) and no school has had an increase in budget to deal with the necessary cleaning and other equipment now required. Equipment now required for say 1,000 pupils will be:

• eleventy billion pens for the school year ( kids don’t have them, can no longer borrow from a friend). Ditto pencils, other essential pencil case items, additional text books, exam texts so students don’t have to share, or additional online subscriptions so don’t have to buy text books.
• hand sanitizer in all rooms, every day for at least the rest of the school year. 1000 pupils sanitising as they enter and leave the building as a minimum.
• wipes in all rooms So teachers can clean their work space when moving about and so pupils can clear their space if they want to.
• soap in all bathrooms, all of the time. 1,000 pupils washing their hands at least once a day,
• cleaning hours (wages)
• cleaning materials
• Supply of PPE for staff who will manage children showing symptoms
• any additional equipment that might be needed to support vulnerable students
• stuff I haven’t thought of.

I would want them to do what is right for their circumstances. So if their child is extremely vulnerable, for example, I want them to be allowed to make a reasoned decision.

Just referring to report below about vanishingly small risk, then this ECV group is small and the nuance of this is lost in overall message which does need to be simple.

But I would think every parent of ECV child will do their own risk assessment, and will have been receiving communication from medics which would bring extra information. And I’m pretty sure they would take this over generalised images.

I’d say this campaign works for children given the risk and ways they have received information.

Can anyone tell me why I should have to resign from a job I trained for and am extremely good at, just because I would like to see measures put in that would protect not only me and my colleagues, but the children and their wider families?

And no one EVER comes back with an answer to what they think would happen if even more teachers did resign? Who will teach "your" child maths if *noble (for example) leaves (but it's OK, not until Christmas).

Schools have no funding for the extra supply teachers they will need if teachers have to be off due to illness or self isolation.

What did they spend their supply budget on when schools were partially closed?

"Spending on supply teachers rises to £1.3 billion" 2015/16

how do you think DH examines his patients? He is certainly not 1m away

He is not expected to be with his patients for up to 6 hours in a poor,y ventilated room, though is he? That’s the point. Short contacts are not considered problematic. Longer contact is. Convenient to pretend otherwise, eh?

A question for the teachers on this post, what can we as parents do to help make your job easier in the return to school?

Follow the government guidelines to the best of your ability. I know some of them are a pain but it may help keep school classes open, and help the adults in school stay safe.

Follow the guidelines sent out by school regarding SDing in the playgrounds, not sending in excess stufff, etc. They've been written with the health of the whole school in mind and for the benefit of both your child and the staff, it just to be annoying.

Support your child in their return to school by explaining things may look different, and some things they used to do may now not be allowed. That it won't be forever, but some things are best avoided right now.

Encourage your child to learn how to wash their hands carefully with soap and water. And also how to use hand gel. If they can't use the schools version, please send them with their own that is safe for them to use.

If your child shows any of the main signs of Covid please keep them at home, even if you're not quite sure if they've 'coughed enough' to justify it.

If your child has any other illness please be aware that they may get sent home if these develop further. And be mindful that staff would probably rather not have a child who is sneezing and having to blow their nose constantly in close contact with them - so show them how to be self sufficient in the aspect by sending them with tissues and plastic bags for used ones. Show them how to sneeze into a tissue or, if no warning, into their elbow.

Be mindful of larger gatherings outside of school such as parties and play dates. Follow the guidelines wherever it's possible.

If schools are anything like mine, we are always short of tissues in the classroom, so maybe send your child with their own stock or consider donating a box of two to your child's class.

You may find some aspects of school life move online so try to engage with those where you can. For example, show and tell may be a case of uploading images, video or words at home so that it can be shared in class or Reading diaries may move to be online. Homework may now use the home learning system used during lockdown.

You may not be able to have as much contact with your child's teacher as face to face conversations may well be limited. Wherever possible try to accept this is just how things are for now and use the email or other messaging services they provide and keep the face to face stuff for the things that really need it.

And just support your child. We want them to be excited and happy to return, and the vast majority of school staff will still be doing their very vest for their pupils, regardless of their own concerns.

In some schools staff costs can take up in excess of 85% of the school budget. And that isn’t with additional TAs, cover teachers. The school then has to cover everything else with the remaining budget eg premises costs including repairs which in many schools amount to a lot, books, stationery, trips, heating, IT. There is no money to spare

@Clavinova most schools had probably already spent their supply budget by the time the summer term came around.