The government is trying to make you think schools will be socially distanced

[noblegiraffe]

The government are currently running a (well publicised) propaganda campaign to say that schools are safe. They are using social media influencers, journalists and friendly scientists (firmly ignoring any unfriendly ones like the Royal Society). Branwen Jefferys of the BBC tweeted “So how high is government anxiety about school return? A PR company acting on behalf of the Cabinet office is now emailing media offering experts to support the “messaging”. Strange way to approach news journalists ..”

And just about every news outlet running stories about schools seems to be rotating stock footage of half empty classrooms with teachers miles away from the kids. There have even been photos of kids getting temperature checks (not allowed). I was watching Sky news where a commentator was saying how awful it was that kids would be sent back to socially distanced schools. The PM gave a rambling speech to carefully spaced kids in a library. And in a visit to a classroom it’s clear that the kids were all shoved down one end in order to give some lovely spaced kids at the other end for the PM to pose in front of.
metro.co.uk/2020/08/27/boris-johnson-staged-school-visit-social-distancing-13188600/

Matt Hancock was on the news saying it was really important for teachers to stay 2m from the kids to avoid spreading the virus between all the bubbles they’ll be working in, despite knowing that this will be utterly and hopelessly impossible.

Why are the government lying? Why are they sending the ‘right’ experts to the press? Why are kids being spread out for staged photo shoots instead of honest pictures?

And why are the press largely going along with it?

Schools are going back, in a lot of cases to an estate that is unfit for purpose. Old buildings, no ventilation, large class sizes. Pupils will be crammed in facing a teacher who won’t be able to stand 2m from them. If it’s so safe, why aren’t they showing and acknowledging the reality?

YABU: what they are doing is fine and there are perfectly reasonable explanations for all the suggestions of socially distanced classrooms and schools in the media

YANBU: the lying liars are lying to us again

I dont know why youre suprised. This Government has lied at most stages of the pandemic. They are using slick media campaigns whilst denying any mistakes and protecting their own backs. This is the Government of misdirection and while we worry about their incompetence they are doing things about Brexit & NHS contracts behind closed doors. I am truly worried for our future because of Boris Johnson and his cronies

@MarshaBradyo if I've understood your early posts right - are you saying that yes you agree the images are deceptive, but that it's worth it if it means 90% rather than 70% of children come back to school?

That basically sounds as though you're saying that deceptive messages are fine if that's what's needed to make sure parents send their children back. Is that what you're saying?

I'm pretty sure that's the thinking of some in government but I think it's wrong. Parents (in particular those of clinically vulnerable children) should be given full information, not lied to (often by omission, but still) about what schools will be like.

The country as a whole should not be lied to about what schools will be like because a realistic idea of transmission likelihood within schools could at least let people in general make informed decisions about, say, whether or not they interact with people in those age groups.

We're being spun to when we should be being talked to like adults. They should just be honest. Even if all it did was let parents make properly informed choices about deregistering as a last resort, at least it would do that.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know many of you are not shy) but don't we have more cases now than we did when we locked down?

Well, it's hard to compare, because there's far more widespread testing now. There were likely many more people who had it back in March but who didn't appear on any official log.

I think where the issue lies is the idea of schools spreading the virus.

The virus is going to spread, whether schools are open or not. Schools might speed up the spread, in fact it's likely they will, but keeping schools closed or making classes smaller isn't going to stop the virus. Nothing is going to stop it, basically, so at some point life just has to continue. That can be now, or it can be in six months time. The longer we wait, the more other problems emerge - children losing out on social contact and education being just one of them.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know many of you are not shy) but don't we have more cases now than we did when we locked down?

This is hard to compare because testing is so different now, and the profile of those catching it also very different.

But my view is our current transmission level is quite high for the point in the year where a) schools reopen b) a million students relocate and c) outdoor meetings become unenjoyable - 1500 cases is bad really.

France had 6000 yesterday! Surely they must be testing differently?

What surprises me here I think is the volume of voices saying so what, yes we know it's a lie, it's worth it, schools have to go back. I don't know whether it's a serious desire to have other parents lied to or a sort of la la la thing because people don't want to think about it.

If 'everyone' knows there will be zero social distancing anyway, why bother with the deception? If 'everyone' doesn't already know it, are the people who do know it really saying it's desirable for other parents to be kept in ignorance? Is it an end justifies the mean thing? Do they have no respect at all for those other parents?

I see what you're saying, except that all the time that the 'stay at home, save lives' nonsense was out there and healthy people were sitting at home, covid was spreading around hospitals and care homes, infecting and killing the most vulnerable people. Staying at home is totally pointless if the ones being protected are the people least likely to suffer.

But that is a matter of complete incompetence, not lack of honesty.

The ditching of the elderly into care homes while absolutely batshit was a consequence of their desperation to free up spaces in hospital.

They are now desperate to get people back to work, and throwing kids back into schools to achieve it is their knee-jerk, poorly thought through reaction that.

They are simpletons who can only focus on one thing at a time.

That can be now, or it can be in six months time.

It makes sense to catch it later, when treatment will be better and more is known.

Happy for others to go to the front of the queue, please go forth and catch it, I will gladly wait!

They are now desperate to get people back to work, and throwing kids back into schools to achieve it is their knee-jerk, poorly thought through reaction that.

Interestingly I interpreted today's latest bullying the other way around, as being intended to put pressure on parents to get kids back to school as they had to get back to the office!

Either way, no one thinks our government is good or caring, do they??

[quote eeeyoresmiles]@MarshaBradyo if I've understood your early posts right - are you saying that yes you agree the images are deceptive, but that it's worth it if it means 90% rather than 70% of children come back to school?

That basically sounds as though you're saying that deceptive messages are fine if that's what's needed to make sure parents send their children back. Is that what you're saying?

I'm pretty sure that's the thinking of some in government but I think it's wrong. Parents (in particular those of clinically vulnerable children) should be given full information, not lied to (often by omission, but still) about what schools will be like.

The country as a whole should not be lied to about what schools will be like because a realistic idea of transmission likelihood within schools could at least let people in general make informed decisions about, say, whether or not they interact with people in those age groups.

We're being spun to when we should be being talked to like adults. They should just be honest. Even if all it did was let parents make properly informed choices about deregistering as a last resort, at least it would do that.[/quote]
Going to quote it all as it’s an interesting post that is discussing rather than having a go (which often happens on here!).

Yes I think it’s worth it to be direct and simple with messaging to get people to do the best thing en masse.

There should be, and assume there is, more direct communication to ECV students and parents. The campaign needs to work to the majority and the very low percent of ECV families (under 3% as that’s overall in society, there will be fewer children) need to get targeted information specific to their situation to risk assess properly. Letters were sent out initially and I’d hope parents feel they can contact medics for specific info.

I’m actually fine with the initial stay home message for same reasons.

@latticechaos

That can be now, or it can be in six months time.

It makes sense to catch it later, when treatment will be better and more is known.

Happy for others to go to the front of the queue, please go forth and catch it, I will gladly wait!

Does it make sense to catch it later? The vast, vast majority of people will be fine. So does it make sense to take measures to avoid catching it when those measures have serious long term consequences, including increased deaths from other causes? Does it make sense to delay one risk by greatly increasing other risks?

I actually think it is even more insidious than you say. The pictures of Boris literally wedging himself up next to a year 7 girl, sat on the floor was a coded message 'look, aren't these teachers who won't get in amongst the kids silly? Look at me next a child! I know no fear!' He also was not 2 metres away from them at points in the filmed lesson.

I'd actually be cross if my child was used like this.

TheDailyCarbuncle

Firstly

No-one not even the unions is saying keep the schools closed. Its a myth, a lie a falsehood. Can you stop posting this rubbish?

Second

Making classes smaller will not stop the spread but it will help in reducing it and make tracking a damn sight easier.

At the moment the school bubble that I am working in is everybody except my fellow teachers and staff members who I am supposed to avoid.

Track and trace in schools is a seating plan. Although this is ridiculous because pupils in my class will not be staying in that group.

We can either get on top of this now or we can play catch up in 6 months time.

I know which I would prefer.

@noblegiraffe

I see what you're saying, except that all the time that the 'stay at home, save lives' nonsense was out there and healthy people were sitting at home, covid was spreading around hospitals and care homes, infecting and killing the most vulnerable people. Staying at home is totally pointless if the ones being protected are the people least likely to suffer.

But that is a matter of complete incompetence, not lack of honesty.

The ditching of the elderly into care homes while absolutely batshit was a consequence of their desperation to free up spaces in hospital.

They are now desperate to get people back to work, and throwing kids back into schools to achieve it is their knee-jerk, poorly thought through reaction that.

They are simpletons who can only focus on one thing at a time.

I think it's both incompetence and dishonesty. They presented lockdown as a vital, necessary thing that everyone had to get on board with to save lives, while at the same time they knowingly increased deaths with policies that exposed vulnerable people to the virus.

Yes I think it’s worth it to be direct and simple with messaging to get people to do the best thing en masse.

Direct and simple isn't what is happening here though is it? Convoluted and deceitful.

The original message is the only direct and simple thing they've managed.

@Piggywaspushed

I actually think it is even more insidious than you say. The pictures of Boris literally wedging himself up next to a year 7 girl, sat on the floor was a coded message 'look, aren't these teachers who won't get in amongst the kids silly? Look at me next a child! I know no fear!' He also was not 2 metres away from them at points in the filmed lesson.

I'd actually be cross if my child was used like this.

And the funniest thing is all the other children swashed up at the other end of the room to give him the space to do it.

@TheDailyCarbuncle

Yes, of course, unless it mutates to a more virulent strain! Like I say, if you wish to take your chances now you are free to.

I think the long covid symptoms are a risk to working age people and more data is coming out of the USA all the time (sadly because so many people are catching it there).

@Piggywaspushed

I actually think it is even more insidious than you say. The pictures of Boris literally wedging himself up next to a year 7 girl, sat on the floor was a coded message 'look, aren't these teachers who won't get in amongst the kids silly? Look at me next a child! I know no fear!' He also was not 2 metres away from them at points in the filmed lesson.

I'd actually be cross if my child was used like this.

I saw that and thought 'yes but Boris, you've famously had it'.

I want to see government pictures of people who haven't had it standing at the front of a normal class and braving the corridors.

Has Gav had it?

No.

Gav is scared of his own shadow.

Well gav is busy throwing people at it, or under it.

Yeah let's get Gav touring as many secondary and primary schools as possible without any extra mitigations other than those already in place...

I think it's both incompetence and dishonesty. They presented lockdown as a vital, necessary thing that everyone had to get on board with to save lives, while at the same time they knowingly increased deaths with policies that exposed vulnerable people to the virus.

You think they knowingly killed off the elderly? Blimey, you're more cynical than me.

I totally disagree with you about lockdown being unneccesary because of exponential growth. You can't have a hope of controlling something and protecting anyone vulnerable if cases are spiralling upwards.

I think we should consider changing tack with the disgraceful Us4Ourselves aspersions on out mental health (gaslighting, to you and me). Perhaps we should get signed off with stress en masse until such time as mitigation measures relieve our poor nerves.

Or maybe instead, people using these tactics could just fuck off and stop suggesting that absolutely rational concerns are symptoms of mental illness.

@FrippEnos

TheDailyCarbuncle

Firstly

No-one not even the unions is saying keep the schools closed. Its a myth, a lie a falsehood. Can you stop posting this rubbish?

Second

Making classes smaller will not stop the spread but it will help in reducing it and make tracking a damn sight easier.

At the moment the school bubble that I am working in is everybody except my fellow teachers and staff members who I am supposed to avoid.

Track and trace in schools is a seating plan. Although this is ridiculous because pupils in my class will not be staying in that group.

We can either get on top of this now or we can play catch up in 6 months time.

I know which I would prefer.

I know no one is saying to keep schools closed and I never said they were so I'm not sure where you're getting my 'rubbish' from.

WRT tracking - smaller classes may mean that an infected child has contact with a smaller group of children while in school, that is true. But how does that help, really, when a virus is in the community? That's a genuine question - I'm not sure how being in a class of 20 is much different to being in a class of 30 when you could pick the virus up at a football game or at your aunt's house. A smaller class means fewer children have to isolate when one becomes infected but over a period of a year that hardly makes any difference really - infection will keep coming around and around, meaning repeated isolations no matter what the size of the class. 'Reducing' infection is a bit meaningless when over the course of the year potentially every single person could get infected at various different points.

TheDailyCarbuncle

I apologise, I saw schools shut and jumped straight in.