How dangerous is flying

[Bougie]

DH and I have to shelter due to health conditions but it would really help DD if we could look after her young children (6 and 7) a few days next week after they return from visiting family in Ireland. Unfortunately we don't have direct access to a garden and nor do they, as we live in the middle of the city. We're trying to decide if it is worth risking having them inside our flat, they have been sheltering for the last month so that would be fine except they will have to take a short flight (Ryanair unfortunately, ugh) and get back from the airport. Wondering what other people would do in our position, I just can't assess how high the risk to us would really be.

@Bougie - masks have to be worn at airports and on the plane, and airports are really quiet and clean at the moment, with lots of hand sanitisation opportunities. Planes are being more thoroughly cleaned and sanitised, too. Planes are generally boarded a few seats at a time, so people will not be walking past each other. There is no social distancing on planes (ie no seats blocked off), but people are discouraged from moving from their seats and not allowed to queue for toilets, so it’s hard to spread the virus very far, meaning the risk is really if you are unlucky enough to end up sitting a seat or two away with someone who is infected. The air on an aeroplane is filtered through filters fine enough to trap virus particles and also drawn in from outside through the engines (the heat from which would destroy pretty much anything!), so passengers are breathing air that is refreshed and filtered every few minutes, making the enclosed air space of an aeroplane safer than, eg, a train. If people are eating, they will be taking their masks off to do so, however.

I would say for a short flight from Ireland, the risk of getting coronavirus from someone else on the plane is exceptionally low. It will not, of course, be entirely non-existent.

How can you not be allowed to queue for toilets? How does it work if you need the toilet then?

@Cherryghost- you stay in your seat until the light for the toilet shows it is free to use. A shorthaul aeroplane is plenty small enough for someone to be able to see before they get up whether or not the toilet is free to use. It’s less than an hour‘s actual flight time between Ireland an England.

DD and I flew to Sweden at the beginning of the summer holiday to visit my mum. We took measured risk, DM had had a couple of difficult hospital stays during the spring and her mental health was deteriorating from beings stuck in her flat by herself. Having me and DD there for two weeks did her a lot of good. It was worth the tiny risk and the quarantine afterwards.

In terms of the journey, the airport was super clean, plane too and we felt very safe throughout.

The only odd thing was that British Airways were handing out complementary snacks and water bottles (all bagged up) so despite everyone having to wear a mask on the plane, we all then took them off to eat and drink!

Btw, @Bougie, is it just the flight you are worried about? How will they be travelling to and from the airport (own car or public transport?), and did everyone they saw in Ireland similarly shelter with them? How about shopping, etc? Did they go out to do that? And will it just be the children in your hone with you, or will their parents be coming into your home for extended periods? It all affects the risk, which can never be reduced to zero.

@Walkaround They will get a black cab from the airport which has a screen between them and the driver, and DD will have sanitiser, they will wear masks etc. They were staying with high risk sheltering relatives in Ireland, so being pretty careful there. But DD said she did not feel as paranoid as here in UK, because the rate of infection there is much better than in England, so they did have the occasional socially distanced meal out and hang out with family members locally.... I was just wondering if maybe a covid test on their return to England might be the answer.....

@Bougie - tbh, I don’t think Ireland is actually appreciably safer, overall, than the UK (although it depends which bits of both countries you are in, obviously!). If you look at the European Centre for Disease Control data, the recorded 14 day cumulative number of covid 19 cases per 100,000 people in Ireland is 25.6 against the UK’s 22.2 - ie in the UK’s favour. Either way, in both countries, the virus is currently sufficiently controlled for you to be extremely unlucky if your grandchildren infect you.

The problem with testing on returning to England is that the average incubation period for covid 19 is thought to be 5 days, but could be up to 14, so if you are worried about them getting it on the flight itself, there is little point testing in the first two or three days after landing, as they won’t test positive immediately at the point of infection. If they already caught it while in Ireland, then you might pick up on that.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ryanair-passenger-removed-test-positive-coronavirus-a4534831.html?amp

Ryanair passenger removed from Stansted flight after receiving text saying he had coronavirus

" #COVID19 on a plane:

-335 people on ~4.5 hour flight
-16 people with COVID19

Only 1 was infected from the flight sat near 4 infected people, not wearing mask properly

Flights are low (not 0%) risk of transmission. Wear a mask."
mobile.twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1296238020471992327

" 2 possible cases of #COVID19 acquired on a ~5 hour flight with at least 7 infected people on board (some with symptoms), and no masks worn. All in close proximity.

Low transmission risk on planes - likely related to cabin air flow/air exchanges. "
mobile.twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1296238018924339202

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-entire-flight-to-cardiff-told-to-self-isolate-after-seven-confirmed-covid-19-cases-12059838

Coronavirus: Entire flight to Cardiff told to self-isolate after seven confirmed COVID-19 cases

Passengers in their 20s tested positive as a "minority of young people" were told off for not social-distancing.

Sunday 30 August 2020 16:14, UK

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia - in other words, flying is safer than hanging around in pubs, or getting a bus, train or taxi where you don’t have to give anyone your details, because track and trace is easy if people on the flight test positive, what with everyone’s details and seat location being known. Without an app, you will never know if you were put at risk travelling the other ways, and when it comes to controlling a virus, ignorance is not bliss.

Given that this is the second issue with tourists returning from Zante in a very short space of time, I’m not surprised they want the whole plane load to quarantine - there is clearly an issue with the way young people are behaving in Zante, if three separate parties had coronavirus on the flight home.

We have a friend who is cabin crew for a budget airline and says planes are very safe. The air flow is from above your head and blows downwards to filters under the floor, it is not like a car or bus where the air flows front to back. There have not been any cases of cabin crew catching Covid apparently which she says they would have if the risk was there